Author Topic: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!! (Read 420205 times)

awemawson · « **Reply #50 on:** March 16, 2013, 11:45:35 AM »

Well a bit more tarting up whilst twiddling thumbs waiting on US parcel service. I decided to try and force start the hydraulic pump as an easy way to prove the phases were giving correct rotation, but when I looked at the hydraulic power pack I decided it needed a clean up first! Years of spills when topping up had resulted in the top tray being awash with oil which in the hotter bits had baked to a nice thick pancake. First I used my tried and tested method of getting the liquid oil out of the way - loads of fine sawdust (I use this method for cleaning out sumps of coolant in machines) then suck it up with the workshop vacuum cleaner. Then a good scrubbing with white spirit and an old paint brush, more sawdust, then a wash down with sugar soap, more saw dust, then a wipe over! Came out quite nicely - still not tried the rotation direction yet as it's time to feed the pigs, geese and chickens.

awemawson · « **Reply #51 on:** March 18, 2013, 06:01:10 PM »

Well a tiny bit of progress today while waiting for spares (which are now in the Customs hands at Heathrow according to the tracking info!).

The parameter memory (MC465) and the spindle drives have 3.6v NiCad rechargeables to retain memory when powered down. This beast had been off for probably over a year so they are knackered. The original batteries are a special made by SAFT - A GB250H-3F, which is a 3 cell lump with bolt down 3mm lugs, and are unobtainable. Later ones are NiMh technology and I'm not sure the on board charger would cope - so I've ordered some hand held telephone batteries that are still available in NiCd and will make up an adapter plate for them. The good news is that I've found parameter sheets detailing all the required information to reset their parameter tucked into each of the three spindle drives. The axis drives aren't so equipped so that will be a hurdle to jump in times to come.

Meanwhile turned up two leveling 'feet' that were missing from the swarf conveyor, and investigated the missing 'castor' from this heavy lump, that made it so hard to install. It's a cast iron 3" wheel, mounted so it's mounting plate is 4" off the floor - so please check your scrap bins and see if you have one!

Here is a photo (off the web, not mine)) of one of the special batteries:

Swarfing · « **Reply #52 on:** March 18, 2013, 08:33:31 PM »

Give these guys a call
http://www.bristolbatteries.com/site/contact
They would make you an exact pack for not too much. I used them in the past for welded bat packs for my RC stuff.

awemawson · « **Reply #53 on:** March 19, 2013, 04:14:12 PM »

Well, parts still showing as in Customs, so did a bit more poking and prodding.

Powered the hydraulic power pack up by manually operating it's start contactor. Fortunately they are the sort where the armature moves sideways, with a tell tale peg at the top that can be nicely wedged with a small screwdriver, and the overload is a separate unit so is still able to function. Motor did turn the right way, so I got my phases in the right places (!) and developed a nice 55 bar on the gauge. Daren't use any of the hydraulic operators until more stuff has been tested. Did the same with the swarf conveyor so was able to clean out the insides a bit. Also checked its reverse facility which I assume is to clear blockages rather than turn swarf back into bar stock

The local authority 'green recycling' wheelie bin conveniently fits snugly under the output! (Why would we want a green recycling bin on a farm, we compost everything locally, anway it was an old bin with a broken lid so my conscience is clear)

Another revelation came whilst pouring over the manuals. The third 'axis' drive is actually the rotation of powered tools in the tool carousel so you can drill, tap & mill (Not to be confused with rotating the carousel itself to select a tool). I had previously imagined that the main spindle orientation C axis was a separate motor from the main spindle turning motor. WRONG - the 18.5Kw main motor apparently can stop on a sixpence as and where you want it. It has two encoders built into a single unit (a Heidenhain ROD2271 1024 / 18,000 line encoder that Traub describe as 1024 / 90,000 line. Maybe there is some multiplication going on somewhere ????)

Lots still to learn

Never know, I may get some spares soon, customs permitting.

awemawson · « **Reply #54 on:** March 20, 2013, 09:58:38 AM »

Even the colour matches

awemawson · « **Reply #55 on:** March 20, 2013, 10:05:16 AM »

So yesterdays foray into the hydraulics entailed delving into the bowels of the machine to find the hydraulic manifold and system pressure gauge (The ones near the Operator Console indicate the clamping pressures in the Main and Opposing spindle chucks)

Handy little drop down door under the console revealed the manifold and a 'orrid sticky mess - do these people never clean up after themselves

So, out with the Sugar Soap and bucket again, and at least now I can read the various labels - next bit is understanding them

ps Spares still in Customs - how long DO these things take !!!!

awemawson · « **Reply #56 on:** March 21, 2013, 01:03:46 PM »

Well, tracking data on the spares from the US of A now says 'Customs Clearance Processing Completed' as of 07:00 this morning, so maybe they'll soon be loaded into the saddle bags of a Yak and trudge vaguely towards me

Still only a 50:50 chance these'll fix things so trying not to get too excited

Pete. · « **Reply #57 on:** March 21, 2013, 02:06:45 PM »

What will be the next step if the new parts don't bring it to life? Not that I'm sceptical or anything just wondering if that will sound the death-knell or if you had another plan.

awemawson · « **Reply #58 on:** March 21, 2013, 02:33:07 PM »

It'll be my death knell if 'er indoors finds out what they cost

Well let's wait and see - my first target is not to get the machine humming, but to at least get something up on the screen and be able to talk to it.

(First rule in sieges and hostage situations - establish communications !)

Funny thing happened today - I was googling away looking for other examples of the same lathe, found one sold some time ago on an Apex auction in Tyne & Wear (other end of the UK from me) - then thought 'those labels and hand scribbled diagrams look familiar' yes you guessed it - it's definitely mine.

https://www.apexauctions.co.uk/auction/itemDetails.htm?lotId=35029

Obviously well travelled, it started off life when new in 1993 with Dorman Diesels, and in fact still with the documentation are some parts drawings, a tooling description, and a print of the G-code to make them. There's an idler shaft, a valve guide and a washer if I remember correctly, so not quite enough to make an engine.

vtsteam · « **Reply #59 on:** March 21, 2013, 03:55:49 PM »

Quote from: Pete. on March 21, 2013, 02:06:45 PM

What will be the next step if the new parts don't bring it to life? Not that I'm sceptical or anything just wondering if that will sound the death-knell or if you had another plan.

Oh, there's always a Plan B!

awemawson · « **Reply #60 on:** March 26, 2013, 08:11:51 AM »

OK a tad more progress. The spares arrived from the USA today. The main CPU card (MC161-1), a colour monitor drive card (MC724-1), and an input output card (MC301).

The original symptoms (while I've had it - remember it was faulty and had previously been worked on) were totally black / blank monitor screen, no RGB Hsynch or Vsynch signals as measured with a 'scope, and various LEDs on the cpu card staying resolutely 'on' when reset / rebooted whereas they are supposed to come on then go off.

With the replacement CPU card the LEDs seem to do what they are supposed to do. With the original monitor card and new CPU we still have a black screen. Putting both replacement CPU & monitor cards in we get a white screen showing scan lines and flyback lines so I assume we now have H &V synch even if no video!

Not tried the i/o card but it's almost certainly irrelevant anyway !

So as I say, a bit of progress but no definite conclusions yet.

awemawson · « **Reply #61 on:** April 07, 2013, 04:15:32 AM »

Well a bit of a leap forwards in progress. I managed to track down an FCA330HLX-V controller in unknown condition. Mine is an FCA320HLX-V the main difference being that my original is a '6 slot' whereas this one is a '10 slot'. The card compliment is very similar but not identical, the 10 slot having more memory arranged differently on the cards. BUT the good news is it does seem to have come from a TX8-F as the eproms in the monitor drive card say so! This controller was sold in an unknown state, so a bit of a pig in a poke, however it has allowed me to use it as a test bed to check things out to the extent that at last I have a picture on the screen - hooray! So far it seems that just the monitor drive card MC724-1 on the '10 slot' is fubar and using one I got elsewhere up came a picture.

Photos to follow: first the original '6 slot' controller, then the '10 slot', then the first evidence of LIFE

awemawson · « **Reply #62 on:** April 07, 2013, 09:44:51 AM »

Well a bit more head scratching and I began to think about character proms on the monitor card. My original card seems to be duff, as does the one in my newly acquired 10 slot controller - BUT the later had a character prom on it labelled 'TX8-F' which is the TRAUB name for this variant of the controller. The one that came to me by another means (and works) was not so labelled. It's only an eprom - go one swap 'em over - so I did. Ho ho - things start to make sense. Start up screen no longer has the odd blue blotch but says 'Meldas 300V Series' and I can trot around the controller finding all sorts of interesting displays, monitors and input screens - loads of errors reported from the attached hardware (spindle drives, axis drives etc) but that's hardly surprising as I'm running without any parameters loaded either to the drives or to the controller. Also the 'Ladder Logic' eprom is from the 10 slot control not my 6 slot one Well loads more learning to come I expect! Here's a few screen shots:

Pete. · « **Reply #63 on:** April 07, 2013, 09:46:13 AM »

I gotta say I admire your tenacity. I hope it all works out for you based on effort alone!

Pete W. · « **Reply #64 on:** April 07, 2013, 11:15:29 AM »

Hi there,

Many years ago, I worked on a project that included a hydraulic power supply. (We sourced it from a sub-contractor.) It used a gear pump. Because it's a positive displacement pump, the oil has to have somewhere to go when the rest of the hydraulic gubbins is not active so there was a relief valve across the pump output.

Thing was, it used to make the most fearsome noise, really deafening.

Does yours suffer the same?

awemawson · « **Reply #65 on:** April 07, 2013, 11:38:30 AM »

Pete,

I've not got to the stage yet that the hydraulics can be automatically activated as the controller needs fully sorting first - there is some SERIOUS power in this machine so it's definitely a case of taking it slowly step by step. Two hydraulic chucks, two hydraulic parts ejectors as well as the flip in /out parts catcher. I have manually powered up the hydraulic power pack by overriding the appropriate relay, and although obviously not quiet it isn't deafening. A few months back I resurrected another CNC lathe (an Eagland Chipturn) and that used hydraulics for the tool turret rotation and locking. When the oil was cold the bypass valve made quite a racket and the rotation was a bit erratic, but it settled down as it warmed up.

Andrew

awemawson · « **Reply #66 on:** April 07, 2013, 03:49:47 PM »

As things are hotting up and there is now a chance that I might actually get this monster working, I thought I had better take my courage in both hands and try and read the 1" paper tape copy of the parameters originally shipped with the machine. Although I also had been given a floppy disc with parameters on I wanted to go back to the 'original source' rather than what others have created over the years.

I managed to pick up a very nice hardly used Facit paper tape reader / punch off eBay about a year ago still in it's original box, so I dug it out, made up a cable to interface to my PC and had a go at reading it. Next question was 8 bit data, 7 bit and parity, and if so even or odd parity. Well after the second pass through the reader I got sensible results (7 bit even parity!) and actually got the tape wound back up without tearing it. It's decades since I've played seriously with paper tape - how time flys

Anyway I now have a 6kbyte file which has many similarities with the one on disk but has all the params not just some of them

For the really bored amongst you I attach a copy! (A sort of off site backup I suppose )

vtsteam · « **Reply #67 on:** April 07, 2013, 10:11:39 PM »

Great work! Sounds like you're really on the verge. Paper tape, even. Amazing!

awemawson · « **Reply #68 on:** April 09, 2013, 12:31:53 PM »

Got a few minutes today to play: Going though the various error reports it's showing is a 'Z58 BRAM error' which turns out to be indicating an MC462A battery backed ram card that I understand holds the parameters. I've tracked a couple down (good old google!) and am 'negotiating' Also managed to make up the link cable to the PC but can't use it until I can clear this Z58 error.

awemawson · « **Reply #69 on:** April 22, 2013, 05:14:00 PM »

Well the MC462A battery backed RAM card arrived today from the depths of Illinois USA, and lo and behold it has cleared my Z58BRAM error. Relief as it took a long time to get and wasn't cheap.

The TX8F controller has a 'file system' in ram that has to be formatted - the original Meldas version of the controller has a menu system that lets you do it, but the reprogrammed Traub version omits the menu - argh!!! Thrashing around all day trying to find a work arround I eventually found a scruffy single A4 sheet in the documents that came with the machine that revealed the cryptic sequence of keystrokes to do the format. This sheet seems to be a page from some training notes that I'd dearly like to obtain, even though it is obviously written by a German in English and the word order of various bits had to be adjusted!

Having created the file system I was able to write a diddy program and save it so it shows up in various directory screens etc

What I can't do yet is re-input the parameters to get it actually running code. Keep getting 'Horizontal parity errors' (remember this data was originally paper tape - a horizontal parity error is within one stripe of holes ie one character - a vertical parity error is along the tape in what we always called a BCC or Block Check Character.

Detailed reading of the Interface Specification this evening seems to suggest that parameters can only be read in when the control is set up for No parity, 1 Stop Bit and 8 Data, but strangely sourced from a PC or tape reader set of 1 Stop, Even Parity and 7 data. Very strange but I'll give it a whirl tomorrow.

Meanwhile here's a picture of the newly replaced MC462A in all its' splendour.

vtsteam · « **Reply #70 on:** April 22, 2013, 11:31:26 PM »

Well, 9 bits either way. Maybe it's just looking for the even parity. and character bit 8 is bothering. Fingers crossed it will work tomorrow. I like your persistence awemawson.

awemawson · « **Reply #71 on:** April 23, 2013, 05:01:25 AM »

OK Parameters loaded into the controller

I still have some odd handshake error on the RS232 as at 1200 baud (the preferred set up in the book) I was getting 'overrun errors', but slowing it right down to 300 baud the data is in and done: Phew that was a struggle.

Still need to get the parameters into the three rotary axis (Main Spindle, Opposing Spindle and Driven Tools) and also into the servo amplifiers (X - Tool In/Out, Z - Tool on long axis and V - Opposing spindle on long axis)

I suspect that some of the Input/Output cards aren't working, as it's reporting a 'Safety door open' alarm, but the microswitch for it is being triggered.

Loads more to discover about this mammoth, meanwhile just in case some other hapless fellow happens across this thread trying to get a TX-8F controller Initialised I'll attach a scan of the scruffy page that got me over the last hill:

vtsteam · « **Reply #72 on:** April 23, 2013, 02:49:59 PM »

Good work!

awemawson · « **Reply #73 on:** April 24, 2013, 04:33:32 AM »

Lots of things happening now!

I got in touch with the chap I got it from to see if he knew where that document came from, and he casually mentioned that he still had the Optical Tool Setter and Zero Tool and did I want it? YES PLEASE

It matters not a jot that I had already acquired a 'scope tube with eye piece and objective lens to make one!

Here are pictures of it in the box, it's Zero Tool and mounted on the machine

awemawson · « **Reply #74 on:** April 24, 2013, 04:50:20 AM »

... And yes he had a few possibilities for where that document came from. To cut a long story short, I am now in touch with the author of the document who has been able to give me lots of very useful information regarding hardware and firmware compatibility.

However he tells me that I cannot use the replacement 10 slot controller as he asserts that the Input /Output addresses don't correspond and I would need different firmware to re-address the various I/O cards.

So yesterday I re-built the 6 slot controller using what I knew to be good cards (prints in Traub speak) from the 10 slot. That little pesky battery backed RAM card is different between the two controllers - you remember I recently got one (MC462A) for the 10 slot that got me out of trouble, well now if I am to use the 6 slot it seems I need an MC465a - it's basically the same thing but sits on the system bus not the rom bus so not interchangeable. I actually have two of them, one which was original to the machine totally locks everything up and the machine will not boot, the other reports a 'bus error' and displays what looks to me to be a cpu register dump. With no card installed I'm back to the Z58 BRAM error - argh!

Some picture to hold your interest

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Author Topic: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!! (Read 420205 times)