Author Topic: Scott flame licker build  (Read 147310 times)

Offline NickG

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2011, 05:16:10 AM »
John,

You've made that spot on. It's certainly the first proper scott flame licker I've seen.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2011, 10:17:31 AM »
Thanks for the heads up, John, I will check with Amazon, and see what replacing my old, beatup sloppy setup will cost me.  I used a ball hone also known as the dingleberry hone, to hone my oddball flame sucker, before lapping, and it does a good job setting up a good cross-hatch, but does nothing at all for straightening out tight spots or ensuring a straight bore, as it follows what is there absolutely.  Are you going to put a slight spigot on the head, to locate it central in the cylinder when you get to drilling the PCD for the head bolts?  It's hard to beat good quality bronze castings, when it comes to making an engine look and perform well.  That water jacket really sets off the rest of the engine, and will be a major "eye draw" factor once it's complete and running.   :beer: cheers, Jack

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2011, 11:38:32 AM »
Thanks Nick, now it is starting to come together. I am looking for parts that I am able to modify to make it look unique. There is not much to play with as some places are tight to get into, so I can't change things too much as they will jam up, but I am trying.

Jack,

I have actually already made the basic cylinder head this morning, with spigot, and I am hoping I am up to an evening session to get things finshed off in that department. If not it will be tomorrow.

The jury is still out on the water hopper. I will be distressing back the two machined faces that show that I put on to get it machined up, but as to polish or paint, I have no idea at this time. I am leaning towards paint as there will be a lot of polished bits on it when finished, and a polished hopper just might make it look too much.


John
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Offline AdeV

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2011, 01:48:07 PM »
John, this is really starting to look like a nice piece of kit now. I'm looking forward to seeing it run for the first time (which, I'm sure, will be the first time you try it).

Also, thanks for showing all these techniques and tools; I'm filing them all away for the time I'm bound to need them...  :thumbup:
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2011, 06:59:22 PM »
Ade,

Quote
I'm looking forward to seeing it run for the first time (which, I'm sure, will be the first time you try it).

I doubt that it will run first time, but I am doing everything to eliminate things that might stop it running, so hopefully it will only require some fine tuning.


I had forgotten that the head had to be made before getting everything set up in the mill again, so here are the bits again. I need to take just over 1/4" off the bar of cast iron and that will then go into stock, a nice little freebie supplied with the kit.




The bar was again mounted up into my 4 jaw self centring and the head was turned to dimensions on the end of it.

I also drilled a hole in the centre, just deep enough for the parting tool to hit. That helps a lot with parting off, especially with these large diameters, the tool doesn't have to reach all the way to the middle, which is the area that cutting failure usually starts to cause problems.




It parted off just fine.




It fitted into the sleeve nice and snug.




I had a choice now. The instructions said that the end face of the cylinder head had to be as flat and as smooth as possible. If it wasn't that way, and it was left roughish, it would act like a file on the graphite block that is used as the sliding flame hole cover, and it would last no time at all.
I could either get that flat and smooth face by ten minutes on the surface grinder, or an hour with a lapping plate. I thought the grinder would be the better choice for me.

So not only was it flatted off, but it was taken down to the correct thickness, which saved another setup and facing job on the lathe.




Smooth and flat, just the job.




It was at this point I started to do a bit of forwards planning. The head required six mounting holes drilling into it, plus the flame hole needed to be machined. Once that was done, the holes were then to be transferred onto both the sleeve and the water hopper (keeping everything in the correct orientation). IMHO, a cock up waiting to happen.
So I first superglued the sleeve into the hopper.




NOW it was time to get it set up in the mill.

BTW, if you do have the opportunity to obtain one of these coaxial jobbies, I can thoroughly recommend them. This one is spot on, and has saved me hours on set up times. But they do take up a bit of throat space, so no use on the smaller mill or lathe.




The newly made head was then superglued into the sleeve, and a weight added for ten minutes, giving it enough time to make the joint.
I use superglue a lot for little jobs such as this, where there aren't heavy machining forces involved.




Using the coordinate feature of my DRO, I spotted then drilled down into the hopper with the correct size for tapping.
Then a quickie calculation and set up, I followed down with an end mill of the right clearance size for the fastener exactly to the depth of the head and sleeve flange.

The plans call for 5BA bolts, but I actually prefer something like this to be held with studs and nuts, so I am using 3mm studs, with washers and nuts, to give a nice neat fixing.




By doing it the way I did above, I could now reach down with a tap and finish off the threads in the water hopper by hand.




That then allowed me to use some screws to hold everything together, so that it could resist the cutting forces to come. The superglue was now redundant




The flame slot was first milled out with a one size smaller cutter, the correct size one was then used. You will get a more accurate hole and better finish by doing it this way.




Job done.
Four operations combined into one, guaranteeing that everything is in the correct position.




A few seconds heat from a blowtorch soon broke the grip of the superglue, and when cooled down, it can be peeled off the surfaces with a fingernail.



These parts will now be put away for a while, as other bits need to be made.

I will make the decision as to which ones next time I get in the shop.


Bogs


« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 07:11:07 AM by bogstandard »
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2011, 02:48:43 AM »
Looking good John  :thumbup:

Those coaxial are very good I use mine far more than I would have thought, as you said you lose a bit of head room, but I use mine with a morse taper collet and find It gives me just enough to work with even when I use it with my RT on my X3 mill.

Stew
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Offline saw

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #106 on: February 24, 2011, 05:08:04 AM »
Looking very good.  :thumbup:
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Offline NickG

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2011, 07:55:01 AM »
John,

Great progress there. I found that the trials and tribulations of building and getting the Jan Ridders internal valve flame licker taught me what to look out for on future builds and my poppin did literally run the first time I held the flame to the port - it's a different engine again but I'm confident yours will as you did much more experimentation with your boxer version.

Getting exciting now!

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #108 on: February 24, 2011, 03:32:27 PM »
Looking like it's going together nicely John  :thumbup:

Feeling inspired again... I really must get my lazy ass back out into my workshop (instead of typing on here I hear you say!?)

I feel myself wishing retirement to come early.... Well, I'd be happy if it came early with no complicating factors and lots of spare cash! But you know what I mean.... Time to do stuff when I'm not completely shot through work!  :dremel:



I do like the idea of drilling and milling at at once to save mistakes  :thumbup:






Ralph.
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #109 on: February 24, 2011, 04:34:19 PM »
Thanks gents, slowly but surely, it is getting there.

Ralph, you don't want retirement, it is not all it is made out to be.

As for getting in the shop, do what I do, a couple of hours each day if possible, make one good part at a time, and eventually you end up with what you want. In my younger days this engine would have been finished in a week, but I am getting a lot more enjoyment out of it now that I am taking a lot longer over things.


John
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Offline cfellows

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #110 on: February 24, 2011, 05:57:49 PM »
Thanks gents, slowly but surely, it is getting there.

Ralph, you don't want retirement, it is not all it is made out to be.

As for getting in the shop, do what I do, a couple of hours each day if possible, make one good part at a time, and eventually you end up with what you want. In my younger days this engine would have been finished in a week, but I am getting a lot more enjoyment out of it now that I am taking a lot longer over things.


John

I've got to agree with you John, taking more time and doing it right, the first time is definitely better.  I've discovered that I tend to get in a hurry and wind up having to do it over, sometimes 3 or 4 times.  I'm also learning to take more time with set ups and think about tooling that will ensure more accuracy.  These used to be distractions that I dreaded, but invariably I would spend more time than if I had just slowed down and done it right the first time.

Chuck

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #111 on: February 24, 2011, 08:25:42 PM »
Too true Chuck.

I went in the shop this morning with the intention of sorting out the flywheel for this engine. So because I needed to use my smaller 4 jaw self centring chuck (8 spoke flywheel) I started to prepare the lathe for converting over to a Myford nose to use the smaller chuck, then realised I could do with one of those ball race straightening up tools, so I dropped everything to do with the engine and started on that instead.

The engine isn't going to get up and run away, it will still be there to carry on with after this bit of tooling is made.

It makes being in the shop a lot more interesting and relaxing, rather than forcing yourself to get things finished.

It was the same this evening, Stew called and asked if he could come visiting. So instead of me trying to get a late evening session in, he dropped in and we had a bit of a chinwag about how his new engine is going on, and he had a look at the bits and pieces I had made.

There is a lot more to this engineering thing to enjoy than you realise.


John
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Offline Dean W

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #112 on: February 24, 2011, 09:14:14 PM »
It's shaping up well, John.  You do up good instructive text and explain the benefits of your steps well, too.
That grinder sure made a good job of the head.  I like that!
Dean W.

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #113 on: February 26, 2011, 07:44:13 AM »
Quote
Ralph, you don't want retirement, it is not all it is made out to be.

Hence the little provisions... "I'd be happy if it came early with no complicating factors and lots of spare cash!"


But I know what you are on about  :thumbup:



Still, definitely inspired  :dremel:





Ralph.
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #114 on: February 26, 2011, 06:45:52 PM »
I will try to give you a bit of inspiration when you call tomorrow Ralph, how to sweep out a workshop in one easy lesson.

That is what my instructor used to say if ever he caught anyone doing nothing. 'There is always something to do, even if it is only sweeping up'.

Now back onto the matter in hand, the flywheel.

I have a bit of a compulsion about flywheels. Usually they are the most noticeable item on an engine, and if they run out even a tiny amount on the rim and sides, they can spoil the look of an engine completely. So I will go to great lengths to achieve, if possible, a flywheel with no runout at all on the rim area. As far as I am concerned the spokes and hub, even though a little out don't detract from anything if the rim is spot on.

Unlike a bulky cast iron flywheel, where the rough casting adds character, my personal view with this one is that the more it is cleaned up, the better it will look. It has a very elegant shape, especially the tapered in rim sides and the eliptical cross section tapered spokes. Some might agree, lots won't. But to me a casting is just a means to an end, a finished correctly shaped component, if it needs every surface machining, then it gets it, if it doesn't, then the cast finish is left as is.

The casting for this flywheel, on first inspection looked fairly good, just loads of flash around the spokes to clean up. But on closer inpection, there was a fair amount of mismatch between the two halves as they were cast, as you can see on the rim mounted in the chuck.

So the first thing I did was to get it onto my RT and clean up the inner hub area, for somewhere for my chuck to hold onto with some semblance of precision.




I needed to use a smaller range of chucks for this job, so my lathe was converted over to a Myford nose, and because there were 8 spokes, I used my small 4 jaw self centring chuck.

Using the newly made nudger, the rim edge was brought to run true.




I soon had the outer rim, the rim face, hub and centre hole all finished at the same settings, so no matter what, this side of the wheel will look spot on. It was then flipped over and pushed backed with the machined rim edge right on the jaw faces. The second rim edge and hub was machined up. I now had a flywheel with the major edges running perfectly true.
After this stage, the flywheel was put back on the RT to have the inner rims that were machined before, gently trimmed to run perfect with the outer rim.




The flywheel again was mounted back onto the lathe chuck and the angle for the funny shaped sides found, 8°. Once that was done, those areas were cleaned up by using the topslide set over to do the cuts.

So this is the almost finished flywheel, just requiring a little bit of filework to blend the spokes into the rim and get the spokes straightened up down their tapers.

Not one single bit of wobble detected. :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:



It is such a shame that most of it will be covered in paint.

So that is all the major pieces done except for a few clean up bits, I can now get onto the small easy to make stuff.


Bogs
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #115 on: February 27, 2011, 03:43:37 AM »
Beautifully thought through, and executed John!  :clap:

Given me several ideas for the 'orribly mismatched, Robinson flywheel......  :thumbup:

David D
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Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #116 on: February 27, 2011, 04:31:59 AM »
Thanks Dave.

I always have a problem, if I haven't got a strategy plan to work to, I invarariably put off machining until I have. Sometimes it can be a few minutes, sometimes weeks. It might even be a bit of tooling needs making or purchasing that delays things, but invariably, when it comes to the time, I will be following a pre planned route.

I do occasionally 'wing it', but only when it is something that can be made again relatively easily if a mistake occurs. This component isn't one of those.


John
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Offline NickG

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2011, 05:07:53 AM »
That is a nice looking flywheel now John. I think it looks really nice in bronze, but always think it's strange they don't use cast iron for things like flywheels as it'd be more representative of an original. Must be easier to cast bronze? Lower temp?

Great work  :thumbup:, I can see a rotary table would be useful for me but then I'd need the appropriate adaptors and tooling to go with it.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2011, 07:37:16 AM »
Nick,

I don't know why but on smaller engines bronze seems to be a favourite, but I could see it getting very expensive on a larger engine if it was used.

I am now trying to do a lot more on my mill, as the lathe is now getting rather difficult for me sometimes, that is the main reason for the RT, that is the tool that resembles the lathe the closest. I reckon with a little work, I could have done the whole lot on there.


John
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Offline NickG

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2011, 07:43:47 AM »
Quite incredible, most people see their lathe as the cornerstone of their workshop but you are showing with that extra axis that so much can be done on the mill too, and it has a larger capacity.
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2011, 05:10:22 PM »
Quote
I will try to give you a bit of inspiration when you call tomorrow Ralph, how to sweep out a workshop in one easy lesson.

That is what my instructor used to say if ever he caught anyone doing nothing. 'There is always something to do, even if it is only sweeping up'.


 :lol:  You should have  :wack:  me today John. I only just read this post!   It was a very similar affair in the garages too.... Never get caught standing around!   :whip:





The engine so far looks very good in person too.  Pretty damn big too :thumbup:   proper smooth machined/lapped surfaces  :dremel:


I've sneak previewed the flywheel in it's next stage too    :borg:




Cheers for today John, always good to "beat the gums" as you say  :beer:
(Thanks to Mal too for the choccies  :ddb:  ) 




Ralph.
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Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #121 on: February 28, 2011, 09:38:00 AM »
Hi John, that engine is coming along very nicely, and I have seen good cause for having a self-centering four jaw for the first time, and will be keeping an eye out for one.  I think the bronze is used because it casts so easily, and at lower temperatures, and iron is used when the amount of bronze gets prohibitively expensive.  I personally like the offset that the use of both bronze and iron makes for looks, and often, for utility, as iron moves less with temperature while bronze is better in corrosive environments.  I hope to see at least a glimmer of bronze when you have that flywheel painted up, it has really turned out nice, and the form fits very well with the whole of the engine.  A very nice job on setting up the cylinder, head, a water hopper, and getting the port in proper place.  It should be quite a runner when finished.  Funny, I seem to remember my shop teacher having a very similar outlook on idle hands.  All together, very nicely done, and getting close to running. :beer: cheers, Jack

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #122 on: February 28, 2011, 06:06:10 PM »
Jack,

Thanks for the comments, and I actually use my 4 jaw self centring more than the 3 jaw, I find they run slightly truer and give that extra bit of grip and versatility when needed.

The flywheel will actually be having the whole rim area showing with just the spokes, inner rim and hub painted. It has started to be blinged up with a few detail features, so until the first firing up, it won't be shown as it is put away for protection, while I am still doing rough work on the engine.

Talking about doing a bit of rough work, I have now just completed the main crank and valve operating cam.


The blanks were made up to the drawing dimensions, and using a few basic marking out tools, what needed to be trimmed off was drawn onto them. Nothing too special, near enough will be good enough except for fixed datum points, centre hole in relation to crank throw and operating angle of cam.




To cut the cam flanks, I just placed a parallel along the vice jaw top and eyeballed the drawn line to be in line with the top of the para.




It was then cut away until the cutter just touched on the central boss.




The same was then done with the other flank line. It was remeasured and found to be spot on the required 120 degs. seperation.




Next came the crank disc to have a bit of hacking done to it.

Because I will be swinging a fairly large cutter about, cutting to full depth of the flange, I put a washer on top of each jaw as spacers, to stop the cutter hitting my hardened chuck jaws.




With the part being tapped down onto the washers and being held in the jaws on the back boss, the RT was centred up on the crank spindle hole by putting a 6mm spotting drill in the quill and moving the RT about until the drill centred perfectly in the hole.

Next I moved the RT 1" to the left (crank throw dimension) and by turning the RT, I got the spot drill exactly over the centre line of the crank disc. The 5/32"(4mm) tapping hole was then drilled. Crank throw sorted.

The RT was then locked up so that it coudn't be rotated.




Next came cutting out the recesses using a 3/4" slot drill.

By using the X & Y traverses, the marked areas were cut out using shallow cuts until they split the marked lines.




The first one done, the second soon followed suit.




A little bit of filework in the bench vice had everything trimmed down to the lines, followed by a quickie clean up.

Except for drilling their grub screw holes, job done.




Now I can start on the operating rods, made from brass. Rather than following patterns and plans religiously, as long as the holes are in the right places, and nothing fouls, I should be able to use a little artistic licence.


Bogs
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Offline arnoldb

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #123 on: March 01, 2011, 11:16:33 AM »
Those parts came out great John  :bow:

And thanks for the tip on those washers on the chuck jaws; that will certainly come in handy on many occasions.

Kind regards, Arnold

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Re: Scott flame licker build
« Reply #124 on: March 01, 2011, 01:16:23 PM »
Hi John


You sure are making cracking progress  :clap: :clap:  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, looks like the division master is getting a good work out too  :dremel:  well worth the time to build one  :med:

Rob