Scott flame licker build

[kvom]

This is moving right along.  I hadn't read the thread for a week or so, and enjoyed the past 4-5 pages a lot.

For those who have them (or can get them), the Jacobs rubberflex collets and chuck are also useful for holding thin-walled tubes in the lathe.

I noticed you mentioned using the centering device in the lathe.  I recently bought one and am wondering what the technique you use in the lathe.  I assume that the tailstock needs a rotating chuck or the like for centering a bore in a 4-jaw (or am I missing something obvious?)

[NickG]

Still watching, have enjoyed this and a few other projects whilst on my break from the workshop - great work, pics and write up.

Nick

[Bogstandard]

Arnold, I'm glad you can still glean a few tips from my ramblings. It is simple ones like that which can overcome major problems. The other way around the problem I had would have been to make a dedicated holding mandrel to get clearance for the cutter. Three little washers was the easiest route, so why not take it?

Some people could easily get carried away when faced with a problem like that. I know, I have done it.


Actually Rob, the reason I put a winding handle on the stepper was for occasions such as this. I didn't require the DivisionMaster this time, as it only needed to be turned a couple of degrees, all other movements were done with the mill itself.


Kvom,

If you mount the coax indicator in an accurate running chuck, and have it touching on a full solid centre held in the tailstock, the tailstock (as long as it doesn't have a droop snoot) can be realigned perfectly side to side.

If you mount it into a normal chuck in the tailstock, and indicating on a part in the rotating lathe chuck, it will work exactly the same as having the coax spinning. So you can use the centre finder tip into a punch mark, or inside or outside indication just by rotating the four jaw. It works in exactly the same way as a normal DTI being held on a magnetic stand.

Still getting there Nick.


John

[lordedmond]

Arnold, I'm glad you can still glean a few tips from my ramblings. It is simple ones like that which can overcome major problems. The other way around the problem I had would have been to make a dedicated holding mandrel to get clearance for the cutter. Three little washers was the easiest route, so why not take it?

Some people could easily get carried away when faced with a problem like that. I know, I have done it.


Actually Rob, the reason I put a winding handle on the stepper was for occasions such as this. I didn't require the DivisionMaster this time, as it only needed to be turned a couple of degrees, all other movements were done with the mill itself.


Kvom,

If you mount the coax indicator in an accurate running chuck, and have it touching on a full solid centre held in the tailstock, the tailstock (as long as it doesn't have a droop snoot) can be realigned perfectly side to side.

If you mount it into a normal chuck in the tailstock, and indicating on a part in the rotating lathe chuck, it will work exactly the same as having the coax spinning. So you can use the centre finder tip into a punch mark, or inside or outside indication just by rotating the four jaw. It works in exactly the same way as a normal DTI being held on a magnetic stand.

Still getting there Nick.


John

John

Having just got a coaxial indicator myself  ( Amadeal do them for £48 inc vat ) , I am confused with your comment on using it in a normal tailstock chuck indicating on the part in the main chuck , my indicator only moves in one plane ( no problem if that is rotating ) but would your method not put side strain on the device.  I can see how it could be used with a rotting tailstock chuck and the work stationary as it is in a mill

or am I missing something as usual 

Stuart

[Bogstandard]

Stuart,

I don't see how it could put side strain on, purely because as the probe is moved, the way the coax unit is built, it turns that sideways movement of the probe into the linear movement of the coax body moving up and down it's shaft. Hold the coax by it's main spindle and press on the probe to see what I mean.

So it makes no difference whether the part is rotating and giving an offset reading or the part stationary coax spindle rotating.

But of course, if you are using the coax stationary, you have to do all you adjusting in line with an imaginary line from the probe tip to the centre of the coax unit.


John

[lordedmond]

John thanks for the reply

"If you mount it into a normal chuck in the tailstock, and indicating on a part in the rotating lathe chuck, it will work exactly the same as having the coax spinning" quote from your first post

surly in this case the coax is stationary ? it may be the way mine is but the pivot will only allow movement in one plane , as it pulls down on the levers on to the body and causes the innards to rise and fall thus operating the dial


Stuart

PS

John I do not want to take your topic off track

[Bogstandard]

That is what I am trying to get across Stuart, if the part in the lathe chuck is off centre, the spring loaded stylus (kept in contact with the inner or outer wall of the part by the spring loading of the coax unit itself) will follow that eccentricity and give you your reading, as the main body slides up and down it's stationary spindle.

A DTI would most probably do things a lot simpler, but there is nothing stopping you using the coax as I have said.

After this, it means video, which I don't want to get wrapped up into at this time.


John

[lordedmond]

Pennys dropped John 

It will work with the stylus on the outer or inner of the part fine that I can see, but use the spring loaded centre probe in a centre pop mark and things would be different as the tip would describe a circle




Any way I will not clog up this post with further waffle , If my skills allow I will try to make a vid in a new thread

Regards Stuart

PS keep up the good work and valuable postings , I to am mobility challenged  and need a wheel chair or crutches for short distances

[madjackghengis]

Hi John, I expect the flywheel will look right nice with the rest of the engine, according to your description, and your description of using the centering indicator in the tailstock chuck sounds easier than my typical use of a dti stuck on my cross slide, to center something in the four jaw or on a face plate.  That will be stored for future use.   cheers, Jack

[Dean W]

Crank looks good, John.  I like the washers on the chuck, too.  Arnold and I both got a freebie.  : )

[Bogstandard]

Thanks gents.

Soon after starting this build, I stated that I would be looking to put my own stamp on this engine, just to make it look a little different from the ones that have gone before that have been built to what is shown on the plans.
After getting the big bits out of the way, where very little could be changed, I am now into 'almost anything goes' territory, and I will be looking to make a few changes.

Have a look at this con rod, exciting ain't it, not.

I have laid out the metal and bearing just to show what the finished item will look like, I am sure a little redesign will help some.




I won't be able to do anything with the rod that goes into the cylinder, as it will be tight as is.
But the bit on the outside should be able to be given a makeover, so I measured up to see what I had to play with.




The plans are nowhere near to scale, so it might look a little funny when I place parts against it. Also at this time I am totally disregarding balancing of parts for changes I will make, if it needs doing, I will do it all at the end.

I have decided to go with a two part build, the original bits that goes into the cylinder will basically stay the same, the bits outside are now mine.
I will make the two parts, then fix them together, then drill the critical dimension for giving the correct length.
I made a rough pencil sketch on the plans of what I want it to look like.




Again, just using a few marking out tools, I transferred my idea onto the metal.




No special machining needed, just the para on top of the jaws trick to line things up, then cut to split the line.




That was done in a matter of minutes.




The curvy bits at the back got the same treatment, cut until it reaches the line.




As you can see, just a few easy cuts and the complicated looking part is taking shape.
I also drilled a few holes to remove metal and allow access for my hand files. The part was then put into the vice and rough shaped. This is too small a job to break out the die filer, things were easily done by hand.




The two rough parts were then joined together. The ali blocks under and the weights on top were my attempt to keep the two parts flat and in line with each other. It worked.
The joint was silver soldered using my method of fluxing the joints, placing a pallion of silver solder sheet on top of the joint and heating from underneath.




The solder flowed right thru the joint and gave a permanent strong joint.




After a good clean up, the large hole was picked up using a transfer punch in the drill chuck. Once I had that zero point, I just fed along and drilled the other critical hole.




I milled the conrod to thickness in the parts required then set about putting in the half round flutes.




A little more shaping up and it is ready to be put away for final shaping and polishing at a later date.





There are all sorts of rods and linkages now that will get the same sort of treatment. No plain flat bars for me any more.



Bogs

[NickG]

Really like the conrod John, the one on the drawing looks exactly like my Jan Ridders one!! Maybe it's time I started exercising artistic license instead of functional license - up until now I tend to make things easier to make!

Just as a slight aside, there's a Beam engine near us at the old water works which has running days from time to time. Got into a bit of a discussion with one of the volunteers that helps run it about how fancy it all was. He said that on parts of the drawing, the critical dimensions were shown but there were supplimentary notes "To be made eyeable" - I believe this is what you are doing. Looks great.

Nick

[sbwhart]

Looking good John

 


Never would have thought of a butt joint.

hmmmm that gives me an idea.

Stew

[saw]

It's so very nice. 

[Bogstandard]

Thanks gents,

DKM,
I love just making things like this, I have been doing it all my life and it gets me back to basics when machinery was just a distant hope. I can do a bit of filing when I feel up to it, and it gives me great pleasure just hacking a lump up by hand. A liitle later, when I get to building more complicated things and shapes, I will start to use my die filer

Nick,
At one time everything was done by eye and feel, if it looks right, then you can bet your bottom dollar it won't be far off.
The Victorians put embellishments onto their machinery just because they could, in fact looking at some of their work, I think the add ons took longer to make than the actual engines. Everything had to be 'just so'. Cutting to a line is plenty accurate enough for things like this.

Stew,
Doing it that way can save a lot on materials, one big expensive piece, or a couple of offcuts, that once made up, turn into something that would be difficult to machine and make if made out of one piece.


John

[madjackghengis]

Very nicely done, and without any over doing the bling, just making it look like a part, and not a bar of scrap, John.  I dare say the rod is more functionally true as well, although with these small flame eaters, power isn't exactly a problem.  I milled out my last couple of cams exactly the same way, although without figures for timing, but as you said, looking across the para works fine, and is plenty accurate, and gets the job done right now.  All in all, everything is coming together quite nicely, and should be a runner very soon.  Makes me wish it were my build   great job, John,  cheers, Jack

[Bogstandard]

A few more rods to do. I won't be showing them all as it is a waste of good space, but I will be showing a few things I did to get them made.


These are the rods that need making, and again a little bland to look at.
There is one at 1/8" thick, that is the operating rod from the cam, two from the cross shaft at 1/16" thick and two going up to the graphite block, again 1/16".
The two offs are actually handed pairs, but can be made up as a pair, then the handing put on afterwards. So to make sure they match, I will join them together, machine and shape them as one, then split them apart.




The first job needed is to solder the two 1/16" plates together.
This is my soft solder joining kit. The small G clamps are not used unless the two plates start to wander apart.
The first job is to coat each face with flux, then by hitting the soft plumbers solder between a clean hammer and a hard place it is got to about 0.005" thick. Using scissors, little pallion strips are cut off the flattened solder end and placed along one of the fluxed faces.
The other plate is placed on top, flux face to the solder and the whole lot gently heated until the solder flowed and then allowed to cool down naturally, do not quench, as it will suck water into the joint and be liable to fail, that goes for all soft soldering jobs.




Soft solder is fairly fluid, even when set, so if the plates are slightly out of line, I put them  into the vice edge on and realign them, followed by flat faces and then a good squeeze. These were fairly close, so they aligned really nicely. If they are way out, they need to be reheated and got more into line, that is when I would use the G clamps, while the solder is still hot and liquid. I find it stays that way for quite a while, as the main metal cools down.




A working measurement was required to make the thicker plate, so I needed to get it so that I could measure between two centres at different heights. With a little bit of thinking, the figure was obtained. The edge of the small mag stand was set on centre of the lower one, the small square onto the upper one, and the ruler taking the measurement. 1/32" is plenty close enough for this piece.




The bar that had been soldered up was cut into the two required lengths, then by drilling on the mill I got all centres thru with a 1/16" drill.
After bluing up, my rough sketches were laid out onto the plates. All the holes were then opened up to 1/8".




The next job was to make up a pair of filing buttons. These were made from a piece of 1/4" silver steel (drill rod), drilled down the centre with a 1/8" drill then parted off at about 1/8" thick. Then they were heated up to orangy red for about 30 seconds and then dropped into a tub of cold water. They came out glass hard, just what is needed, and no need to clean them up. A short 1/8" spindle was made up out of a piece of unhardened silver steel.




This is how they work. One either side of the bit to be filed to shape and then the spindle is rested on top of the vice jaws as the vice is tightened up, trapping the part between the two buttons.

You then file downwards until you can file no more, the buttons are so hard, if you carry on, your file will soon be buggered. Just file around the buttons until the ends become very nicely radiused, taking on the shape of the buttons.





It only took a couple of minutes to get these done, then it was onto the mill to split the drawn lines, as shown in previous posts, then a little hand filing to blend things together.

If you notice, there is only one filing button here, the other shattered when I tightened up the vice on one of the other plates, so I had to rely on my ability to keep the file level while going down to size.




The extra holes in the centres of the rods will actually have small steel decorative finials fitted (6 off overall), just to finish them off.


Pivots, torque rod and springs next.



Bogs

[madjackghengis]

Those rods look very "eyeable", with the nice figured curly cues fancied into them, far better than rectangular bar stock with holes.   Very nice work there.  Looking forward to watching the soon to come video, I hope.  very nice indeed. Jack

[saw]

This is unfare, it seams so easey when you are doing somthing... 

[Bogstandard]

Jack,

This isn't completely finished yet, that all happens when I prepare them for polishing, but they look a lot smaller in real life than they do on a drawing.




Saw,

If I can do it, anyone with a little patience and a few tools can as well. A lot of problems with making things is with the person thinking he can't do it, not the actually doing of it.

Have a look at my signature line.


Bogs

[madjackghengis]

Holding it like that puts it all in proper perspective, John.  I still stand on the statement that's fine work, and artfully done.  I think the little extras really make the engine interesting, and "eyeable".    Jack

[kvom]

Nice exposition of techniques as always.

I was wondering about the tight spiral on the endmill you showed milling the conrod.  I have a couple of endmills with such spirals and wonder why they're that way.

[Bogstandard]

Kvom,

A great many of my solid tungsten ones are like that one, six fluted with a tightish spiral, and used mainly in the aerospace industry. I think they are made that way because they are designed for giving a superior finish on harder materials.

When I carry out face milling with them, even on something like gauge plate, the finish comes out like a mirror, even with a heavy cut.


Bogs

[cfellows]

Yeah, those end mills caught my attention as well.  Those are called high helix or high helix angle end mills.  They are mostly described as useful for softer materials like aluminum and for providing a nicer finish, although some reports I've read say they don't give as nice a finish on steel as lower helix angle flutes.  Never saw a six fluted high helix end mill before. 

Chuck

[John Hill]

Always very inspiring work Mr Standard!