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Author Topic: Robinson Hot Air Engine.  (Read 149985 times)

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #150 on: January 28, 2011, 12:29:15 PM »
Much rarer to find are serial taps, where they get larger on the main cutting thread the less taper they have on the end. Arc Euro are the only cheaper, but fairly good brand that do these types of taps. It makes cutting an almost or full contact thread easier in harder materials, as you are not trying to go to full thread depth from the very beginning. Each subsequent tap of the three sizes cuts the thread a little deeper, just like you should do when using a die.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Taps


But for cutting stainless, I have yet to come across any better than these.

http://www.tapdie.com/


Bogs

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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #151 on: February 05, 2011, 09:38:27 AM »


Haven't achieved a lot, this past week or so. But, I'm pretty pleased with end quality.....  :thumbup:

I planned long and hard, how to seal between displacer and cylinder.  :scratch:

Eventually, I decided to follow the previous pattern, with a threaded tube......

First, I needed the top deck fixing in alignment with the rest of the engine. Referenced the exhaust pipe.....

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1250010.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Then aligned the deck to it, and held with a through bolt/ clamp.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1270012.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


I then spot drilled the 6 hole pcd, through the deck.

Drilled & tapped all ok, after replacing the plug tap for a better quality one.  ::)


Found a nice piece of stainless bar. Drilled through 4.5mm. Then turned the o/d to a nice sliding fit in the brass repair tube......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2010001.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Used the blank to align the casting tube hole......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2010004.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.



Plunged it all the way in. Then aligned in X to a snug fit against the angle plate. (No gap, as is shown here)......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2010005.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Aligned in Y direction, and tightened to the angle plate. Leaving the assembly vertically in line with the m/c spindle.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2010007.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Made a 5mm bore drill bush, and dropped it down to rest on the cast iron displacer sleeve......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2010008.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Drilled through 5mm. Fished out the bush, then opened out to 6mm......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2010014.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Nice crisp hole......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2010018.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.



In the new section......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2010020.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


As before, aligned in X, then Y, using a piece of 6mm bar in the drill chuck and snug in the hole......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2030022.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Perfect alignment for tapping, M7 x .75.......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2030025.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Threaded the tube, and tapped M6 in 'tother end......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2030029.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


After all my worries over alignment of several components, and threads. It screws smoothly into place, between finger & thumb!!  :ddb: :ddb:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2030028.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Thinking how I it previously had a screwdriver slot, and wanting something neater looking.......

I realised I could insert and extract, with a locknut in the speed control threads!  :thumbup:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2030030.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Just a bit pleased.....  :D

Hope the euphoria lasts...... Can't see much being done next week! ::)

David D

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Offline NickG

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #152 on: February 05, 2011, 11:16:56 AM »
Not surprised, it's looking a top quality job - well done  :thumbup:
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Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #153 on: February 05, 2011, 11:22:24 AM »
Quote from: Stilldrillin on January 25, 2011, 03:59:04 PM
Well.....
With the amount of cast iron dust I'm producing, I should have called this posting. "Getting down n dirty with Mrs Robinson".  :D

The saga continues.
Fitted the skirt and displacer tube together..... Just a little mismatched!  :scratch:

The crescent, is the end of the displacer tube.......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1250004.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


No wonder I couldn't get the hot cap properly centralised!  :bang: :bang:

Bored the mouth of the skirt concentric to the displacer bore......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1250006.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


That's the new, glued in place, repair section I'm gripping on.....

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P1250009.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Great stuff, that high temp slidelock Dean! Thank you!.  :thumbup:

Drilled and started tapping, the 6off, 6BA threads holding the deck casting to the repair section. The (new) plug tap feels very stiff to turn.....  :doh:

Job stopped. Quality tap ordered, before anything goes snap....... I hate that sickening/sinking feeling!  :(

David D


I was just thinking, "with the amount of cast iron dust I'm creating", maybe you should be collecting it, and then put it all in a little dam and with an oxy-acetalene torch, melt it down into a new foot. By the way, that fix on the air tube, sealing out the water looks like it should do a fine job and make that engine run. Just a thought :lol: :poke: mad jack




« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 02:28:38 AM by Stilldrillin »
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #154 on: February 05, 2011, 12:10:44 PM »
Give that man a coconut:-  :thumbup:  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Looking real nice Dave.

Ther's a nice pic in latest issue of model engineer of a robson hot air engine that was made in 1900 and used for turning roasting Coffee.

Ther's also a nice picture of a three cylinder radial engine on the front cover

  :D :D :D :D

Stew
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Offline NickG

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #155 on: February 05, 2011, 03:26:54 PM »
Stew, I've been looking out for your articles, will have to have a look - might even buy it!  :beer:
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Offline arnoldb

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #156 on: February 05, 2011, 03:52:52 PM »
Really nice job David  :thumbup: - Well done!

 :beer:, Arnold
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Offline shoey51

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #157 on: February 05, 2011, 04:15:12 PM »
 :bow: David im really impressed with ingenuity wish I had it :scratch:

keep up the great work mate 
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Offline Dean W

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #158 on: February 05, 2011, 07:53:11 PM »
David, what a nice clean job!  Excellent use of that bushing for drilling the hole in the bottom of the..  hole.  : )
You do good work.
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #159 on: February 06, 2011, 04:06:28 AM »
Thanks for all your positive comments Chaps!  :thumbup:

They're really appreciated, especially after some planning/ machining has gone right......  :ddb:

Stew. I've got to get meself a copy of Model Engineer.  :D

David D
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #160 on: February 08, 2011, 06:41:31 AM »
Just measuring up. Before sorting the wobbly displacer piston......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2080004.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Is there any reason for the displacer to have .2" clearance at the bottom, (hot end) of it's stroke. And "nil" clearance at the top, (cold end)?  :scratch:

I can easily extend the shaft by .1", to make both clearances the same.  :thumbup:

David D
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Offline NickG

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #161 on: February 08, 2011, 08:07:58 AM »
Do that David, it's quite a bit of clearance though 0.1". What is the clearance around the displacer piston? The hot air engine that I made I think I gave 1/32" all around and at each end.

The clearance should be minimal but also enough so that it doesn't cause any sort of drag when squeezing the air from one end to the other.  :thumbup:

Nick
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #162 on: February 08, 2011, 08:20:59 AM »
Nick.
There's around .08" difference, between slightly distorted displacer, and the cylinder. (.040"/ side).

2.25" bore x .75" stroke.

David D
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Offline Dean W

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #163 on: February 08, 2011, 06:40:48 PM »
Quote from: Stilldrillin on February 08, 2011, 08:20:59 AM
Nick.
There's around .08" difference, between slightly distorted displacer, and the cylinder. (.040"/ side).

2.25" bore x .75" stroke.

David D

David, that clearance (0.040") sounds okay, considering how large the displacer piston is.  I'll (dis)-qualify that by saying
I have not built this particular stirling design, but on others the displacer fairly flops around in there.  The last one I built
had near .020"/ side on a 3/4" diameter piston.
For the distance between piston at the top and bottom, the ones I've built have been quite close at the end of
each stroke.  I would think splitting the top and bottom clearance would be appropriate. 
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Offline NickG

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #164 on: February 08, 2011, 06:49:09 PM »
Was just going to say the same as Dean, that's a relatively small gap so will be fine. You just aim for the least dead space possible but it will be fine.  :thumbup:

Nick

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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #165 on: February 09, 2011, 04:17:43 AM »
Thanks for your replies, Chaps!  :thumbup:

I wondered if it was some sort of tuning bias. Rather than another builder's bodge......  ::)

The pot is in sound condition. I will be able to turn a new top/ shaft location, to repair nicely. Probably.....   :D

David D
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Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #166 on: February 10, 2011, 12:04:54 PM »
Well David, it looks really good so far, and like you should have it running up to snuff shortly.  I'm really looking forward to seeing that video of it running, and maybe doing something useful, like pulling the cat's tail or some other good domestic job.  :lol:  :beer: cheers,
mad jack
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #167 on: April 18, 2011, 03:39:37 PM »

Quote from: Stilldrillin on February 09, 2011, 04:17:43 AM

The pot is in sound condition. I will be able to turn a new top/ shaft location, to repair nicely. Probably.....   :D

David D

Ah! Well........ They were prophetic words!   ::)

As you now know, everything stopped with a bang.  :bang: ...... Well, more of a clatter from the machine, and a whimper from me.......  :bang: :bang:


http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2110007.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


So, I sulked for a while.
Thought about making my own design.....  :scratch:

No!...... I want to keep it standard. So, I'll just buy another pot, and work from there. But not really in my comfort zone.....

I contacted Polly Models via email, explaining I needed a displacer pot/ cup. The reply was, "A replacement displacer is £18.00 inc vat plus postage of £3.00"....... Hmmm..... Ok, then......

This is what arrived! Which I would call a hot cap........

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2280022.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Twice the thickness of brass, (.045", rather than .022"). 'Orribly big, dead space radius. Wouldn't fit in place of my hot cap.......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P2280021.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


So, I contacted Poll Models, and was told this best fitted my description of a displacer pot/ cup!!  :bugeye: .......  Hmmm.....

Didn't like to argue with a lady. So, I asked for an exchange for the displacer, as named on the invoice......

This arrived...... After I had paid to return the hot cap, and after I had paid another £3 for their postage to me......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P4170020.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.

Looks ok.... Dunnit!


http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P4170021.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Only, it's twice the original material thickness, and larger diameter.........   ::)

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P4170023.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


The working clearance is/ would be .020"! And obviously, I can't bore out my hot cap to match!

£27, for a displacer pot, I can't use!  :bang: :bang: :bang:



So, I put it away....... And went and did a few other things, for a couple of months!

Normal fumblings will be resumed in a few weeks. Probably!  :thumbup:

David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #168 on: April 18, 2011, 03:54:16 PM »
That's a bummer Dave  :(

How about bushing the bore to get a fit  :scratch: .

Stew
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Offline HS93

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #169 on: April 18, 2011, 06:43:21 PM »
is the old one beyond repair? I know it looks bad but woith a bit of taping hear and there I have seen worse.   :dremel:

Peter
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Offline Dean W

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #170 on: April 18, 2011, 07:13:49 PM »
Glad to see an update, David, but not your troubles getting a simple part!  I think you could fix the old one, too.
A bit of bashing and a few spots hard soldered to fill the holes and... original part back in service.  The small dents and
dings shouldn't matter to the displacer can, since it fairly flops around in the hot cap anyway.  Not like it has to be
a close fit.
Good luck how ever you do it.  Hope it doesn't keep you away from this project for another two months!  ; )

Dean
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Offline madjackghengis

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #171 on: April 18, 2011, 09:37:54 PM »
Well David, call me a cynic, but can you take about half the thickness off the displacer, and gain it as clearance, and get enough to make it run? Jack
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #172 on: April 19, 2011, 02:09:11 AM »
Thanks for your replies Chaps!

Stew.
Not sure as I understand "bushing" for fit.... The displacer spinning is oversize to my bore and cap. Only .02" clearance....
I think it should be around .1"....... Unless anyone else has an opinion on what the clearance should be? :scratch:

Jack.
Frankly, it's slightly tapered, and skimming would only release around another .02", giving .04".... Hardly enough, probably!

Peter, Dean.
Looking at it, now.... Yes! You're right. I could probably knock it into some semblance of original shape......

Fortunately..... After my, "blunders you make?", posting....... I had a pm from a Gentleman of this Parish, offering to make one for me.......  :thumbup:

I now have to decide on sizes, and produce a drawing..... Does anyone have any objections to .1" clearance, o/d and .05" clearance either end?

Or, any other comments?  :wave:

David D
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 03:42:08 AM by Stilldrillin »
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #173 on: April 19, 2011, 03:22:24 AM »
Quote from: Stilldrillin on April 19, 2011, 02:09:11 AM

Stew.
Not sure as I understand "bushing" for fit.... The displacer spinning is oversize to my bore and cap. Only .02" clearance....
I think it should be around .1"....... Unless anyone else has an opinion on what the clearance should be? :scratch:

David D


Nither do I  :lol: sorry misunderstood how it worked  :hammer:

Stew
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Robinson Hot Air Engine.
« Reply #174 on: May 15, 2011, 10:03:11 AM »
Well..... Here we go again!  ::)

Unfortunately, shop time is a bit restricted these days. I have to grab what I can, when I can......

As you all know, Gentleman John supplied a new, superb displacer piston.....

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P5090013.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Assemble with displacer and linkage at bdc. Mark the hole position......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P5130006.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Rotate to tdc. Piece of paper towel holding displacer at tdc. Mark hole position......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P5130008-1.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


This gave two marks, 5mm apart. Drill pin hole central, to give 2.5mm clearance at each end of stroke.

Then assemble with piston and rod. Shorten shaft to just clear underside of conrod. (Tiny chink of light showing)......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P5130011.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Orientated the cylinder and bearing  pedestal square to each other, and drilled for 1/8" dowels.

The air transfer hole was some distance off tube centre. It took a 10mm recess to clean up.

Drilled through 5mm.......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P5090006.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Machined a brass bush......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P5090009.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Sleevelocked into place to make a recess for an O ring......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P5090012.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Every internal area which had been rusty, had a coat of Hammerite.....

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P5120016.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Including inner end of the cylinder, and piston crown.......

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/P5130004.jpgRobinson Hot Air Engine.


Assembled with new hot cap gasket, and Hylomar.......





More twiddling and fiddling to come. Water test to come next! Hmmmm.........

David D


« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 06:24:18 PM by Stilldrillin »
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

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