A new mill for me! X3 Sieg

[raynerd]

I've wanted a new mill for a while now to upgrade a little in size but not had the money to buy one. I've got the x2 and had considered a good dro on that to make me happier but with the recent troubles I've had with it, smashed bearings and blown up controller, I decided I'd had enough. I've been selling a bunch of machines lately, some that are a luxury and some that I don't use - making a bit of money for the family and I had a bit left over.

I didn't have enough for a new sx3 so started looking for one second hand, one came up but I couldn't even afford the price of the second hand one offered to me!

I Posted a message on homeworkshop asking about an x3 and got a few emails telling me there was one on eBay where I had been looking but had missed this listing!

The beauty of this was that it also had glass scales fitted with a dro....this is a massive massive bonus since I really wanted a read out but wouldn't have had the money to fit this on any machine purchased.  Anyway, placed a bid of £670 and won. :-)

Collected this morning from a chap over Liverpool way, a great chap to talk to with his mate helping. A great machinist - lots of experience and you could tell the X3 had been treasured and well looked after.

I was surprised how big it is next to my x2 - it is a considerable upgrade in both size and with the dro. It is certainly the  biggest machine I could ever fit in my workshop.


Pictures of my machine off ebay listing.















I am away for a few days at our caravan but looking forward to getting it all setup. It is currently just sat in my workshop waiting!

I appreciate this is tiny compared to most of your mills but I'm pleased as it is a significant upgrade for me!!

No idea what I'm going to do with the poorly X2 now :-S

Chris

[spuddevans]

Congratulations Chris, I have to admit that I am more than a little jealous, I'd love to have an X3. Sigh, maybe one day.

Enjoy it, and I look forward to seeing what you make on it.


Tim

[philf]

Hi Chris,

Looks a good buy - especially with a 3-axis DRO.

Did you wreck the bearings on your X2 when you got the Morse taper stuck? You'll have to make sure the same doesn't happen with the X3. Better make some wedges before you need them!

Have you thought about CNCing the X2?

Enjoy your few days away.

Cheers.

Phil.

[micktoon]

Hi Chris , looks like you have got yourself a nice machine there  , the DRO is a big bonus too..........makes it just ready to plug in and use 

 Cheers Mick

[tom osselton]

Size dosn't matter    as long as it fills your needs, you can't tell looking at what you create with it.  I still have to pick up a dro, that has to be a great help on projects! 

[raynerd]

Hi guys, thanks for the interest.

Tim - yes, I'm pleased with it. The X2 has served me very well especially in my earlier days when I was even more naive and ignorant to correct methods as I am now.

Phil - Hello, hope all is well. Do you mind sending me an email some time when you get chance. My host went down and I permanently lost all my emails and contact details over the past 5 years!!! Converting it to CNC is certainly on my list of possibilities. I'd have to repair the controller but guess I'd have to repair that either way.

Tom and mic, the dro is good. I fitted a dro shumatec to the x2 which was amazing for the few weeks it worked each time before it got killed with swarf or the connections worked loose. All my fault of course but I think if the cheaper Chinese scales are going to work then you really need to box them in well and I didn't do a good enough job! I'll hopefully have better luck with these.


On a side point, what do you guys do to jack up small machines in terms of "feet".  I feel, like the x2, that the base needs lifting slightly to give more space below the hand wheels. Or do you just bolt directly onto the work surface?  I only mention feet as I noticed that is what he was using but was adiment that the feet were not with the machine in his advert!!  They looked like m10 bolts with a 2" metal disk with rubber glued to the bottom!

[chipenter]

I just used some 2 x 2 hardwood under the oil tray , made a small drawer from ally to fit , but it's only a X1 a lot smaller than yours to small really .


Jeff

[Bluechip]

On a side point, what do you guys do to jack up small machines in terms of "feet".  I feel, like the x2, that the base needs lifting slightly to give more space below the hand wheels. Or do you just bolt directly onto the work surface?  I only mention feet as I noticed that is what he was using but was adiment that the feet were not with the machine in his advert!!  They looked like m10 bolts with a 2" metal disk with rubber glued to the bottom!

Chris
 
They just look like Anti-Vibration Mounts .... nothing special, similar to these:
 
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/range/guid/C769CDF5-DB4D-44CC-993E-8F0D8D7CE8C1?da=1&TC=SRC-anti+vibration
 
Dave BC
 
 

[John Rudd]

On a side point, what do you guys do to jack up small machines in terms of "feet".  I feel, like the x2, that the base needs lifting slightly to give more space below the hand wheels.

Chris,

I got some 2 x 2 steel box section and cut it to length and used that to jack up my mill......

Still got some spare controller boards if you're interested in repairing your mill...pm me offline.

[garym]

Hi Chris,

Well done with the mill purchase. I removed the feet and bolted mine to the bench I'd made for it. I put a plinth of plywood under the base to raise it slightly otherwise as you say the column handwheel fouls the bench. I decided this was a better approach than having it hanging over the edge of the bench. I'll get some pictures later.

Is it MT3 or R8 spindle

Gary

[garym]

Chris,

Photos attached, as promised. Plinth is 2 x 18mm ply.

Gary

[John Rudd]

One thing I forgot to mention....

My X2 mill stands on 2 box section steel risers as I said in my previous...

The whole thing then stands in a plastic seed tray ( about 600mm sq ) and that contains all the crap....swarf/coolant ect...Stops your nice polished ench geting wet...

[raynerd]

Just a  quick message to say thanks for the info. We went out on a spur of the moment retreat so bad connection! I have more questions but will reply wen I have a better signal back at home.

[ChrisC]

That looks great Chris.  I bought an X3 about 3 years ago and converted it to CNC.  I spent a bit of time getting it the way I wanted it, but I'm very happy with it.  I fitted mine with a long table, from Arc Eurotrade.  To be honest it is not probably a bit out of proportion, but the additional cross travel has been really useful on occasion.

I also made up a mount to fit a Kress high speed spindle off to one side of the main spindle, which has also been useful for engraving and PCB isolation routing.

I'm sure you're in for lots of fun with your new machine!

Chris

[raynerd]

Fairly early morning and could not sleep so decided to go and tram the mill, or see how aligned it was based on the reamed dowels that are used to align everything.

I was doing fine but when I started winding down the z axis, I noticed it jumping! It wasn't smooth... It would move nicely down and then you could feel and physically hear it jump! The hand wheel didn't actually move the head and then it would fall all of a sudden.i took a video and this was a particularly good example if it working badly! Normally, I can move though 1mm very smoothly and then it happens...in this video, it was doing it often! If you turn the volume up you can hear me cranking the hand wheel but no movement on the dro and clunk when the head does fall.

I've got to sort a few things out now but I'm going to have to come back down in a short while and try and sort this out. Anyone any thoughts on why this would be happening. A quick inspection and it seems the bevel gears are aligned ok at the back. When I turn the graduated hand wheel, the bevel gears are always meshing and the vertical lead screw is moving, just for that short time the head doesn't move with it and falls off a sudden.  :-(

I also noticed this x3 model doesn't have a gas strut :-(

[philf]

Chris,

It's most likely to be that the gib on the head is adjusted on the tight side or a lack of slideway lubricant (or a bit of both). I wouldn't worry too much. A gas strut wouldn't help - it would only reduce the effort involved in winding the head up and down.

Phil.

[lordedmond]

Chis

take out the z gib ( support the head on a wood block to stop the tilt ) give it a good clean and check its flatness the usual way scrape to correct as required reinstall with way oil as lube ( I give the dovetail above the head a squirt now and then ) wipe off as required for your machine cleanliness

as to the adjustment its very critical ( the SX3 has solved the problem by fitting a screw at the bottom to trap the gib against the top screw ) as the slot in the gib is sloppy and the screw is sloppy as well this causes the gib to tighten when the head goes up ( wedge effect ) and loosen on the way down

you have to have it a little looser than you would like to get it to move smooth, adjust it by the handle feel if it is hard to wind up slack it of a tad and so on

to adjust the SX3 one you slack off the bottom screw and adjust the top one against the bottom one and shuffle the gib between the two to get is good

if you look on arc site at the parts dia. for both you will see what I am droning on about  on the SX3 its part no. 77 top screw and 91 bottom one the X3 has only one part 64

Stuart

[raynerd]

Than you very much! It was indeed just the head binding and reading even more int this, it seems some a realy problem with it. Thankfully I removed the gib as Stuart mentioned, it was already flat (previous owner had done this), oiled it, reinserted and adjusted the adjuster. Am I right in thinking that this tapered gib is only adjusted by the single screw at the very top which drives the taper into the groove?  Anyway, adjusted it until tight and sticking again and then just came back off it a fraction and it now moves smoothly with no play. I have read that some people are in a position where no sticking of the gibs makes the head sloppy yet too tight causes no slop but sticking!

Chris

[lordedmond]

Chris

Yes you are correct X3 top screw only  SX3 screw top and bottom stops it moving better to adjust

Glad you sorted it now enjoy the machine keep the z dovetails well lubed up give it a wipe down when you tuck it up for the night if the oil bothers you

please do not take this the wrong way but do not forget to lock all axis expect the one you are moving  and NO climb milling except for very light cuts for finish ( better not at all )

BTW they do like the FC3 mills a 6 mm one in a holder will do a lot of work and keep the strain down after all they are only a small mill as is the SX3 they are not a Beaver or K&T


Stuart

[raynerd]

Cheers Stuart
Funny, everyone keeps referring to the x3 as a small and compared to the x2 I've been using, it feels a beast!! 

I spent a couple of hours tramming the mill today, but just the head to the table by lifting an edge of the column. It was well out, by ~0.16mm - does that sound possible?? I swiped a DTI in the spindle across the table and it was so far out that when it got to the other side, the finger wasn't even touching the table! It was fine across the y direction, the width of the table.

I've been doing a lot of reading and apparently I need to tram the spindle to the column. I've read a method where you turn a piece of bar in the spindle by hand and using a DTI mounted on the column, read the maximum runout at the top of the bar and the same at the bottom of the bar...the difference is the error overall. There is definitely a significant difference when I do this between to two run outs but I can't understand in my head what this is showing or on the X3, how to correct this! I'm not sure what I should be shimming and how! I presume I should be releasing the 4 bolts connecting the head to the column and shimming it top and bottom to move it into or away from the spindle?  I guess I should do this first as well since it could also cause it to slip left and right and kick the head out of tram with the table again!

Confused... any help appreciated!

[lordedmond]

Chris

mount a angle plate on the table put a clock in the quill and lock x ,y and quill raise and lower the head and take a reading against the angle plate you will need to do this for and aft as well shim the base of the column as required, this will set the column perpendicular to the table , then you can tram the head with the four bolts you mention

try and borrow a two clock tram tool they do make life easy ( but are dammed expensive to buy)

you shim the column at its base and make sure the bolts are FT ( fully  tight ) not what you may be thinking 

mine is set up to just make the trail cut with a fly cutter, but as its a tilt head I move the head a lot so I have to tram very often.

Stuart