Which USB "microscope" for measurement / poor mans shadowgraph?

[PekkaNF]

Going to visit east coast of USA in few weeks and thinking of buying myself some goodies.

Much of the tools I can find on the net-shops are same on the both sides of the bond, but there are few things that I could lug home from US.

One is stereo microscope, something like 20x, but I know next to nothing on this matter and would hate to have one broken on luggage handling.

I have seen some pictures taken on USB-microscope that have some measuring software. Prices wary wildly and I don't know at which price range crap turns to useful.

Wants:
* Measurements (metric units), length, r, and angles would be nice. Working software is very high on my list.
* Good mounting, something like camera thread or something, not wobbly clips
* Magnification about 20x?
* How many pixcels?
* Good enough optics that will show image without that much distortion, that it is impossible to compare shapes of common threading/cutting tools.
* Do I need polarizing filter and will that deside the model or am I better of buying camera filters and mount them front of the camera?

Nice-to-have
* Is is possible to have optics that will allow front lense some distance from the object without breaking the bank? I don't want to stick the lense right into cutting tool, but 20X there should be no need?
* Lighting and mount I can build, but if I get away with build in light, even better

I'm looking for very basic unit that will do few things well, if the optics and software is good enough, then I'll work out stages, mounts, lights and micrometers etc,

Any thoughts?

My plan "B" is to get some good loupes with reticles. Any suggestions on them?

Thanks,
Pekka

[Brass_Machine]

Can't help you on the microscope... but where on the east coast are you going?

Eric

[PekkaNF]

New York city couple of days and then Troy, NY.

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,7705.msg82580.html#msg82580

Would have love to see the American Precision Museum, but it seem to be closed. Anything (yesterday) scientific or industrial would be nice to see.

Pekka

[Raggle]

I bought one similar to this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/500X-USB-Digital-Microscope-2-0MP-video-camera-/260848910033

and it came with Coolingtech measurement software.

I've not used it much as it runs in Windows only and I rarely leave Ubuntu linux. But it is pretty good other than the supplied stand. There are shots of the measuring software in that ad, but they suggest a download from

http://www.joinnew.com/joinnew/NewsView.asp?id=10&.html

I haven't checked that one. Your risk

Ray

[ajawamnet]

I have a few of the Avens - both the 10-200x and the 500x:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/26700-200/243-1065-ND/1953868

they have a few different ones:
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/optical-inspection-equipment/microscopes/4063899?k=aven

Even wireless

[PekkaNF]

Thank you all,

Choice of USB-microscopes and their suppliers is bewildering. Really hard to make any commitment without actually trying one or maybe someone has tried to measure carbide inserts / HSS-tools and thread forms with these?

I see couple of brands showing up:
Aven tools:
Item # 26700-300, zipScope USB digital Microscope 2M
http://aventools.thomasnet-navigator.com/item/digital-microscopes/-and-shop-microscopes-digital-microscopes-zipscope/26700-300?
    
Item # 26700-200, Mighty Scope Digital - 10-200x
http://aventools.thomasnet-navigator.com/item/digital-microscopes/mighty-scope-hand-held-digital-microscopes/26700-200?&bc=100|1211|1005|1006|1244x

Item # 26700-209-PLR, Mighty Scope Digital 5M - 10-200x
http://aventools.thomasnet-navigator.com/item/digital-microscopes/mighty-scope-hand-held-digital-microscopes/26700-209-plr?&bc=100|1211|1005|1006|1244x

I'm having hard time differenting them in terms on measuring some 6-20 mm long objects with fairly low accuracy demand. Image quality and large specimen to lense distance would be plus.

They seem to come with some software that should work with some measurement functions.

But they also sell separate software, that might be same or different?
Item # 26100-406, EZ Measure Software
http://aventools.thomasnet-navigator.com/item/all-categories/tegories-optical-inspection-tools-imaging-software/26100-406?cid=5451&prodid=1270&itemid=2134&backtoname=Item+%23+26700-300&pane=sb&bc=100|1211|1005|1006|1244x

And then there is of cource Dino-Lite that has very many models, but not sure which one would have right spec. without braking my bank.
http://www.dino-lite.com/products_list_class.php?product_type_name=Handheld%20Digital%20Microscope%28USB%29

Looks like they are very spesific purposes, but when resolution goes up even with 10 times cheaper ones, price skyrockets. Or am I googling on all wrong places?

Pekka

[Raggle]

I also have one of these, bought for £30 at Lidl in UK

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-BRESSER-20x80x350-USB-MICROSCOPE-WITH-SOFTWARE-Same-day-dispatch-/230883148382?pt=UK_Collectables_Scientific_MJ&hash=item35c1b5425e

There was no measuring software with it but the CoolingTech I mentioned earlier should work. It only works for saved images so I imagine they can be imported into the program, but i haven't tried it yet

[srm_92000]

Just recently I converted an old wireless colour camera, about £49 here in UK, into an edge finder for the mill.
I will post pics if anyone is interested.
The thing is I've used it more since for measuring things. as its wireless I can spin it by hand and mark my screen (old glass tube tv) with dry wipe marker, then use the dials to measure stuff. It's come in really handy.

[Fergus OMore]

There are two articles which I recall.
The first was in a series in Model Engineers Workshop on a variety of subjects including webcams and the second was by a Mr Mike Trethewey who wrote up using a cheap web cam program called Centrecam also in MEW.

I recall making up the latter and registering my use.

Actually it is still available on the net but the update has yet to materialise

[PekkaNF]

Just recently I converted an old wireless colour camera, about £49 here in UK, into an edge finder for the mill.
I will post pics if anyone is interested.
The thing is I've used it more since for measuring things. as its wireless I can spin it by hand and mark my screen (old glass tube tv) with dry wipe marker, then use the dials to measure stuff. It's come in really handy.

I'm definately would like to see the mechanical structure and hear how did you mannaged to zero optical and mechanical axsis.

I have allways wondering how to use crosshair, reticle or such with USB-camera, but your solution is pretty clever and dispenses with computer altogether, which is pretty good.

There are two articles which I recall.
The first was in a series in Model Engineers Workshop on a variety of subjects including webcams and the second was by a Mr Mike Trethewey who wrote up using a cheap web cam program called Centrecam also in MEW.

I recall making up the latter and registering my use.

Actually it is still available on the net but the update has yet to materialise

I remember those articles! Very inspirational. Was there a catch of using certain model of web cam for centrecam?

My wish is that if the camera needs to be hooked up to the computer then computer, then computer should provide much functionality.

Pekka

[Fergus OMore]

Re CentreCam, I used a very cheap webcam from a computer fair but the problem for me was the program. It would work on older versions of windows but there were problems with my higher ones.

I suspect that the program is no longer possible to down load.
I also vaguely recall a guy that wrote about this and his use of pinhole masks for alignment.

Old age, I'm afraid
Cheers

N

Guy was Peter Rawlinson writing in Model Engineers Workshop..

Hoorah for 'Pelmanism'

[Raggle]

http://www.miketreth.mistral.co.uk/Software.htm

Ray

[PekkaNF]

http://www.miketreth.mistral.co.uk/Software.htm

Ray

Centre cam:
Those pages are not updated lately. Anyone downloaded and used this lately? And if so, on what OS?
I have one pretty basic VGA "snake" camera lying around, I could try that one.

On USB-microscope front I probably go for Aven Zip scope. less see... or I could buy cheap 20x stereo microscopes, but they are without reticles and thus great for viewing, but not that great for measurement of small objects and comparing shapes.

Noticed that Mach3 has cross hair and some other features, but a little overkill for this application only.

Pekka

[srm_92000]

Hi pekka and all,
Got some pics of my cam.
first one shows the general idea. the innards came from the little black case on the right.
I put the brass adjuster in but its not really needed if the case is extended a bit. just trial and error to get the best mag/size/depth of field required. The lens is the one that came with it mounted a bit further away from the sensor.
the sensor board was glued to a chamfered brass ring which is centred with the three cone point screws


Second is the back.
The body was bored from this side then the lens mount bored and threaded without removing.
The back plate was made and the pin (which locates in a bore not just by the screw) tightened into place with thread lock prior to machining the diameter that locates onto the bore.
Basically I just made it all as concentric as I could, probably didn't need to be so fussy.


The insides. Note the socket on the lead from the camera had a voltage reg moulded into it !
Don't just cut the wires!


The view on a tiny 5inch B&W tv sorry the pic is rubbish this looks a lot better in real life.
The rule in view is 1/2mm Divisions -yes half millimetre so about 40x mag 80mm screen height.

Using this is a bit weird as the camera is free to rotate, its worth putting a big mark on it to indicate bottom of picture.
optical - mechanical alignment is in two parts
Lens to axis - can't do much about it, it's as good as it is.
Sensor to axis set with screws so sensor centre is roughly mid screen.
doesn't seem to matter much.
I mark the screen with an edge in view, rotate 180, mark again split the difference to mark the centre.
Do the same on the other axis.
Now you have a spot the  middle-ish of the screen that corresponds to the axis of the spindle.
Hope some of this makes sense.
Cheers.

[ScroungerLee]

You can try this link

www.miketreth.mistral.co.uk/files/centrecam12.zip

I am on my iPad so I can't try it, but I think it works

Lee

[PekkaNF]

You can try this link

www.miketreth.mistral.co.uk/files/centrecam12.zip

I am on my iPad so I can't try it, but I think it works

Lee

Thank you. I tried it and almost gave up installing it to celeron/vista combo. When I gave up and pressed a wrong button, it proceed to install. After something like five trials.

Only USBcam available was this contraption, sometimes described as snake cam, but it seemed to work with AMCAP.
http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/USB-Inspection-Camera/Pr363804000

First picture is test setup
Then picture capture trough AMCAP
Same view from CentreCam (screenshot)
Same view with Olympus 850SW

Bottom line: This camera/light combination offers far less than 10x loupe or 3diopter magnifying lence.

Probably this is allready clear to everybody else, but I noticed that the object to be measured and calibration reference has to be very close to same level. I could not get even close to 0,1 mm accuracy with centrecam/snake cam combination, no matter how much I calibrated. But this cam has something to do with it.

I suspect that camera has to perpendicular to the sample and reference and manuals focus would be highly desirable, probably also one good magnification.

I have narrowed my choice down to two particular USB-microscope makes:
1) Dino-Lite, basic one (software looks good, many tutorials on YT)
2) Aven Mighty Scope (not so convinced if all that resolution is good honest noninterpolated bits, but software seems to make it possible to compare two images, eg. thread specimen and "ideal" thread form.)

Aven seems to be more open, anyone used mighty scope with skype? Or Dino-Lite?

Pekka

[Fergus OMore]

Centrecam- I did issue more than a hint about problems with  new versions of Windows.

Ah well

Norman

[PekkaNF]

Yup. You did. I read. But had to try! I'm sure there is something in this cheap camera set-up that has to useful and I'm not going to leave no stone unturned until I'll fiqure out where it stops being viable.

I have been eyeballing Hemigways centering microscope kit. An alternative to it would be AV-camera just like above, but I need to figure out how much resolution/magnification is needed to center Mill/drill accurately.

I would very much like to have solution without too much complication, but if a PC or laptop is needed it must then provide something extra and not just sit there processor crunching something stupid and let me do all the work!

I think that most cost effective for measuremet would be to construct some sort of shadowgraph with 20x stereo microscope and micrometer movable stylys to measure objects on one axis. I could use this to inspect my lathe/milling tools and check grinding quality (with my present skill and equipment - lack of it!).

For centering I could build/modify led ring light and I would like rest of it be purely optical, but I have no skill needed to design/build one from scratch.....and I have given up finding one old in working order AND one that won't break my back&bank.

Young man has right to dream.
Pekka

[Fergus OMore]

Young man has right to dream.
Pekka

Nope but kindly to you, young Sir and it is old men who  dream dreams and have visions

So let an old man dream on and go back to yet an older man- none but Ned Westbury.

He wrote in many names and one was 'Geometer' and I believe that some of his  Microscope on the Lathe articles is still on the net.

My dear old 'brother in arms' J.W.Early and I ran into all sorts of problems when we tried to get such articles onto the net.  Maybe, someone can find them again or have the articles in Model Engineer in about 1963 and guessing Vol120.

Let me know how my memory is holding out.

Norm at--------------------82+

[PekkaNF]

sumthing like this:
http://www.neme-s.org/Model_Engineer_Files/3219-Microscope%20on%20the%20Lathe%20%236.pdf

????
Pekka

[Fergus OMore]

Yes, but there is a lot more. I'm guessing  that there is a bit using an occular which is similar to what is being offered in  Hemingwaykits

However, I suspect that you will want to have Advanced Machine Work by Robert H Smith as an aide memoire. Still on the net- ancient but brilliant.

Regards

Norman

[PekkaNF]

I'll check it bit later

I have:
Accurate Tool Work (1908)
http://archive.org/details/accuratetoolwor00stangoog
few pages of microscopes

and

Modern toolmaking methods
http://archive.org/details/moderntoolmakin00jonegoog
that has some inspirational measurement stuff

BUT they still don't convice me to make centering microscope and definately not one, that has great likelihood of working good enough to justify this soujours.

Pekka

[srm_92000]

Just to add to my post a little (Did anyone see it?)

Once you have a mark on screen you can just use the mill handles to measure anything. my main use is to measure things that are flexible specifically razor blades, but pitch of screws, thin sections etc. would be easy.
as edge finding or lining up to a punched mark goes it's simple.
I can easily repeat within .025mm and with care .01 or less.
once linear dimensions are taken it's easy to just draw it in a free CAD package to get any angles or other info needed.

 

[AussieJimG]

I built one like yours Steve, using the innards of a Logitech webcam. As you say, having the sensor on axis is not a big deal. I was worried that it described a cone when the quill was rotated. In retrospect, that probably did not matter either.

But I put it to one side when I realised that the 640x400 pixel resolution of the (free) CentreCam software would not give me the accuracy I wanted - not down to 0.01mm. Perhaps if I had bought the updated software it would have been alright.

Jim

[Fergus OMore]

Jim,
        A note here about Centrecam. I registered with Trethewey and have a number but all that registering does( did) was to remove the 'free' thing.  As indicated, Centrecam still has a  long way to go- and I've waited a long time. Moreover, I contacted him about the known problems using a higher level of Windows. I simply gave up. It cost me £20 or so to register and whilst I appreciated the potential, I was wasting my time.
N

Pekka,
That leads me to raise other questions about the viability of your plans. Years and years ago, I was involved in quality control and inspection and whatever. This was with access to a great deal more in measurement equipment than I have now in my small home workshop. OK, I have or had a lot of stuff far beyond the average home workshop but  I am going to question whether you have the backup equipment to go beyond what Geometer( Westbury?) possessed- and was able to construct from it.

Having said that, there are a lot of places which I visit where 'my finished work' is still in place( it's lasted well) but I would be the first to realise that it could not have been done with what I have -in my own workshop now- even with computers and whatever instead of a 'guessing stick'

I hope that I haven't upset you.

Norman