Centering Scope.

[udimet]

Hi All,
                 I just thought I would tell anyone who's interested about a new tool that I have been given. It is a centering scope that was made by the legendary firm of telescopic sight makers Schmidt & Bender,
it was for use in the factory and not for sale and, as to be expected from Schmidt and Bender the precision is quite outstanding. [accuracy of 0.002 mm which far exceeds my capabilities] It was given to me by my wifes father who was an optical engineer with Schmidt & Bender [he is now retired] and only cost me a crate of Warsteiner. I also Have a Marcel Aubert centering scope which is superb but, does not come close the S&B  The quality of the optics is unlike any lens that i've ever looked through in fact you  could'nt really tell that there is a lens/lenses in front of your eyes.  So I guess in addition to making the worlds finest telescopic sights they must have produced the worlds best centering scope :bow  according to the father in law there were about 6 made but with the advent of touch sensors are no longer used so I am one very happy camper. As soon as I can beg the use of a digital camera I will post a few pics.
                                                                                                                              Regards,
                                                                                                                               Udimet.

[Jonny]

Whats this used for?
Optically centring a scope?

True they do make decent lenses but most people live off their past reputation, there are far better.

[ieezitin]

I have one, its an instrument that you chuck either in a collet or chuck and its for optically finding dead center of the lathe or mill.

It looks like a microscope with a shank, at the side laterally protruding out is the eyepiece, it works like this, mark out your work and scribe the line or center punch your bore, put collet and scope in headstock of lathe or quill of mill, bring work close to end of scope (about 3/16) (work is now on mill table or on the cross slide of lathe), look through eye piece and find your line or center punch mark, now rotate the quill or chuck 90* and look through again adjust the table as necessary.(your dialing in on the x-y grid method)

It’s a very accurate way of achieving your mark but its not user friendly by no means, I have found it not practical for bench top machines or up in sizes for getting access to the eye piece is a strain, but I can see where maybe a jeweler or someone who works on small precision mills and lathes would benefit from this. To be honest I don’t use mine much so I am in fact thinking about forwarding it on so I can purchase tooling I need more.

I hope this explanation helps.   Anthony.

[Ned Ludd]

Hi Guys,
For those interested in making one; http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Centering_Microscope.html ,would be a good start point. I have one half made and every time I want to drill out broken screws (friends broken bits not mine, I never break anything ) I kick myself for not finishing it. Although the kit is quite expensive I think it worth it even though I have used mine yet. One good thing about the Hemingway kit is that the graticule has circles as well as cross hairs, so lining up on a screw should be a piece of p*ss. Some commercial ones only have the cross hairs which would be fine for lining up scribe marks, but not so good for round things like screws.
Ned

[udimet]

jonny,
               Centering scopes are used almost exclusively on jig borers and high precision milling machines although, as ieezitin points out they can be used in the tailstock of a lathe. The one I have is suitable for any large mill.  Most model engineering machines would I suspect, be unable to have the comparable accuracy to get the best out of the S&B it is really too accurate for my type of work.
Going of topic here slightly you say S&B make DECENT lenses well that is a bit of an understatement, certainly as far as sights go there really is only 1 other make that can run them close and that would be Carl Zeiss
I cannot comment on camera lenses or any other optical systems but, I would think that the premier makers would be Carl Zeiss and Ernst Leitz although opinions will differ.
Incidentally almost 80% of the worlds military use S&B.   
   izeetin, the focus distance  on this one can be anything from 3mm up to 38mm with magnification variable from 5 to 60                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                       Regards,
                                                                                                                     Udimet.

[philf]

Another use for the centering scope on the mill or jig borer is to enable you to use the machine as a coordinate measuring machine. Centering scopes usually have a cross-hair and concentric circles in the graticule. Thus you can easily centre the scope over small holes with the concentric circles or an edge or corner with the crosshair. If your mill has a decent DRO then (providing the X & Y axes are truly at 90 degrees) you have a useable non -contact measuring machine.

In the tailstock of a lathe they can be very useful in rebushing clock plates. Pivot holes usually wear in one direction and you can use the concentric circles to locate the centre of the original hole of a plate mounted on a faceplate.

I recently sold a Schmidt & Bender Spotting Scope on Ebay. I bought it 2nd hand in 1982 for £76.50 and it had been in its box in the bottom of a wardrobe for many years. I was going to take it up to a local charity shop but thought that they would only ask £10 or so for it so I put it on Ebay with a starting price of £30 with 10% going to the North West Air Ambulance. Within minutes I had a couple of bids and ended up with £410! I was amazed at the response to it. It was a beautifully made instrument, still in almost as-new condition with very sharp and bright optics. After the charity, Ebay and Paypal deductions I invested the rest in parts for my CNC conversion of an Alexander Engraving Machine.

Phil.

[udimet]

philf,
           Nice to see that you and your local air ambulance got some good money for the S&B. Did you know that some of their sights cost in to the thousands? but then quality never does come cheap.
         in fact their entry level sights would be the equal of most makers mid/upper level.
                                                                                                                          Regards,
                                                                                                                         Udimet.

[philf]

Hi Udimet,

When I realised there must be something special about the spotting scope (there were 60+ watchers & plenty of questions) I googled it and found very little. One post on a forum claimed that S&B only made 50. I contacted S&B and they couldn't tell me very much - only that they were last made in 1982 and that in 1979 they cost 591DM. I guess that most of the interest was from from the shooting fraternity who wanted a matching Spotting Scope for their S&B scope on their rifle. It was such a guy who bought it. He was (to use his words) 'over the moon' with it and I was more than happy. I did send him the original recepit with a warning for him not to look at it if he didn't want to be upset.

Phil.

[Jonny]

Thanks for the operation, i have an interest in quality optics but was thinking V blocks at the time.
Wondered how they did it years ago.

The mod may choose a certain manufacturer but the users dont have a say.
The best European glass is Schott, i much prefer the image quality offered by the likes of Meopta, Zeiss, Swaro and IOR.
Fully aware what the S&B start at just sold two PR modded Leups for more than an average S&B to part fund a hand built March with ED lenses. Just think the quality has gone down the last 5 years with the typical approach we know best having owned one.

[udimet]

Jonny,philf, thanks for you responses. When buying a S&B some of the less expensive ones are assembled in Hungary, it is the full blown ones that are assembled only in Germany. And yes Schott glass is superb quality
excellent for precision optics. in fact the German optics industry is probably the worlds best if you look at the names and the history involved.  philf I don't think S&B make spotting scopes any more only telescopic sights but I will ask the father in law he will know. certainly the guy that got your spotter got a great bargain
                                                                                                               Regards,
                                                                                                            Udimet.
                                                                                                     

[John Stevenson]

Got a Russian one here, very precise and accurate and the bonus id being Russian you can use it in the dark 

John S.

[Pete49]

Got a Russian one here, very precise and accurate and the bonus id being Russian you can use it in the dark 

John S.

If you can find a way to add wiring you could also run your machines from it. Voltage may vary though
Pete

[Jonny]

Udimet cant see an S&B listing any where on anything other than rifle scopes.
Did know certain things were done in Hungary, the protoype i had in 2006 may have but wouldnt expect the PM2 50mag to be but having a look Sunday could well be. Talk a lot of bull on their site, as above living off a past reputation which was well earnt. They are not falable and have made some serious blunders lately but listen to no one, they know best!

Russia and old eastern block have done some serious good optics built like a tank.

[Pete49]

Udimet don't waste your time reading those threads they are all lies.  :bugeye:They are just trying to make you feel good about an item that is just so hard to get rid of as it listed in the UN list of dangerous tooling.
As the list dosn't apply to Australia just send it to me and I will dispose of it down a deep disused mineshaft.
Nice score and for us hobbyists a very useful tool
Cheers
Pete