Fight against annoying power cuts!

[PekkaNF]

I have been reading Andrew's topic "Bally Power Cuts !" with great interest
http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,9984.0.html

I don't live in the countryside, but this area is still pretty sparsely populated and has some power lines that seem to go down almost once a year when there is autumn storm.

I have two UPS for computer/WiFi and two laptops with 2/3 batteries 70% charged all the time for each.

What is more that autumn storms seem to get here later and later every year and  year 2011 it was in Boxing day and pretty damn cold. Power break lasted almost three days and we have a wood fired oven but our friend had not. They were four strong and were ready to evacuate and move in to our house at that evening - middle of packing essentials they got power on on we few hours later.

I have oil/electricity central heating with radiators, it does not need much electricity to feed oil burner and circulation pump, 200 W at most.

Calculated that I could easily construct 12/24 V system with 200/100 Ah batteries and sinusoidal inverter to go trough up to 9 h power cut. That should do most, but not the longest and most troublesome. So, it would need an DC generator (probably self-build) or generator and very expensive battery charger (20-30A chargers are not cheap). But it would be quiet for whole night.

Then I considered these small 1Kw briefcase generators, small, easy to store and Honda/Yamaha seem to be good and produce enough of good quality electricity. I have had some problems storing gasoline for a long time, would really need a good system to recycle gasoline from canisters to car and that sounds like eventually something could go wrong (water, contamination, dent on my car.....). Not sure how easy to maintain, but they definately seem to need a lot of maintenance to run for three days more or less continous.

I finally splashed out my cash (actually swiped Visa-card) and bought year 2008 diesel generator half price, because it has been sitting on the cardboard box on the storage all this time and it's all open roll cage construction I prefer for maintenance and transportation. It's noisy, probably that's why they are not sold for construction workers anymore.

it has Yanmar L70AE diesel engine and single phase 3,9KWA alternator. Engine manual is pretty good, alternator manuals pretty basic and generic, generator manual very sketchy and importer Finnish manual next to useless.

I like that it is simple one. Recoil start and all. Would have been nice to have a starter motor without dynamo/regulator/small battery, but that was not an option, just ideal for me.

Got 4l of oil and 20l gallon filled with oil. I still need to find a maintenance manual, spare filters (to be changed after 200 h of run, but good to get before I need one).

The generator is this type Pramac E4500
http://www.pramac.com/pages/Product_detail_fr/513?ixRecordTableName=vw_p_product_sheet&root_node=2&lang=en_GB&id_market=176&id_product=1026&ixRecordId=1026

I still have to run it in and familiarize, just to make sure it works when I need it.

It has a small gas tank. It's really not that big problem. But 2-3 hrs of running time could be sometimes a bit limiting and the fuel filter is inside the tank.

I'm considering either external fuel tank with an electric driven pump AND good big automotive type diesel fuel filters and all that pluming. OR just a bigger tank over that roll cage and some bigger filter attached to the frame.

What could go wrong?

Pekka

[chipenter]

Most diesels will run on light heating oil just wont start on it , two tanks and a t valve or mix diesel and oil 50 50 .

[awemawson]

Best of luck with the project Pekka 

I'm at the 'gathering parts' stage with my generator. You will have seen the pictures in the 'Bally Power Cuts' thread. Generator is here looking splendid. I've ordered a 60 litre diesel tank that arrived yesterday, and am waiting for an electric fuel lift pump, piping and a heavy duty battery. I decided to go for a whopping big battery (Yuasa 622) that is the same one used on my tractors for interchangability. I have a smaller one that cranks ok if you use the decompressor to get it started, but as I want automatic change over and starting in freezing conditions bigger is better as it'll have to turn over with the decompressor not used!

I'll be building a 'lean to' against a chimney breast of the house to house it, but to fit it all in in the limited length, the tank and battery will have to go under the engine / generator which will need lifting 300 mm. To this end I'm considering welding up a complete new sled for it incorporating space under for tank and battery and 'sockets' to receive a pallet pump truck for moving it into place.

When the action starts I'll start a new project thread.

[PekkaNF]

Most diesels will run on light heating oil just wont start on it , two tanks and a t valve or mix diesel and oil 50 50 .

Yea but - no but. I have bought diesel from the pump, because on 15l it does not make much difference here. Later on I might have my oil tanks cleaned and order motor/heating oil, it's pretty much the same price, but it's guaranteed to meet EN590 or whatever this diesel standard is.

Best of luck with the project Pekka 

I'm at the 'gathering parts' stage with my generator. You will have seen the pictures in the 'Bally Power Cuts' thread. Generator is here looking splendid. I've ordered a 60 litre diesel tank that arrived yesterday, and am waiting for an electric fuel lift pump, piping and a heavy duty battery. I decided to go for a whopping big battery (Yuasa 622) that is the same one used on my tractors for interchangability. I have a smaller one that cranks ok if you use the decompressor to get it started, but as I want automatic change over and starting in freezing conditions bigger is better as it'll have to turn over with the decompressor not used!

I'll be building a 'lean to' against a chimney breast of the house to house it, but to fit it all in in the limited length, the tank and battery will have to go under the engine / generator which will need lifting 300 mm. To this end I'm considering welding up a complete new sled for it incorporating space under for tank and battery and 'sockets' to receive a pallet pump truck for moving it into place.

When the action starts I'll start a new project thread.

I have been following your thread with great interest. My parents used to have a Lister generator most part of the -70s. We were off the grid and generator was automatic start. Gravity feed fuel system. This generator was mounted on very substantial concrete footing, then rubber feet, then steel plinth and generator. Whole thing had a shed build over it. It was behind of the barn because it was pretty loud even in the shed.

I need to consider how I can wire it onto heat circulation water pump and oil burner. Pump is no problem, but oil burner has some regulation stuff and here it is not that simple to assemble transfer switch, there is whole lot of regulation and red tape. I'm actually considering if I have a small separate transfer switch for heating system only.

Pekka

[awemawson]

At a simplistic level could you not just wire a socket from the generator close to the boiler oil pump and circulating pump (they probably have a common feed anyway) and have them on a plug so you can unplug when the power goes off and plug them manually into the generator socket, reversing the operation when the lights come back on ?

On my oil fired boiler (well actually I have three in separate buildings  ) they have a mains feed that goes to the boiler-controller/timer and everything else the boiler needs like the circulating pump and oil pump come off this same feed.

[vtsteam]

Pekka, I'm not sure of your climate, but am guessing it's at least as cold as it is here in southern Vermont. In the Northeast US, diesel is blended for the season. It isn't the same summer vs, winter. In winter, the fuel has a higher proportion of kerosene (parrafin - Br.) so that it won't gel in the fuel lines and tank. Of course we get temps fairly regularly in the coldest part of the winter of -10F (-23C) and occasionally -20F.

While using heating oil might be okay for a more moderate climate, like Britain, it could pose problems in a harsher winter location. And, for the cold season, it's best to buy new diesel fuel here at the beginning of winter to get the winter blend, rather than in late summer, when it's still summer blend.

Sounds like you've bought real diesel fuel, so all should be well! 

[PekkaNF]

At a simplistic level could you not just wire a socket from the generator close to the boiler oil pump and circulating pump (they probably have a common feed anyway) and have them on a plug so you can unplug when the power goes off and plug them manually into the generator socket, reversing the operation when the lights come back on ?

On my oil fired boiler (well actually I have three in separate buildings  ) they have a mains feed that goes to the boiler-controller/timer and everything else the boiler needs like the circulating pump and oil pump come off this same feed.

Here it's a little more complicated
1) Oil burner needs a separate circuit: fuse/CB - cable - red main switch next to door - oil burner. No plugs/socets alowed anywhere.
2) Circulation pump is no sweat - plug is fine....

Transfer switch has to postitively-absolutely isolate here N and L both. Positive forced contact make/break and all that works. I have to figure out if this can be done to one phase, two CB/two circuit. Or do I need to have the whole BIG four/five pole change over switch and use only N/L.

Pekka, I'm not sure of your climate, but am guessing it's at least as cold as it is here in southern Vermont. In the Northeast US, diesel is blended for the season. It isn't the same summer vs, winter. In winter, the fuel has a higher proportion of kerosene (parrafin - Br.) so that it won't gel in the fuel lines and tank. Of course we get temps fairly regularly in the coldest part of the winter of -10F (-23C) and occasionally -20F.

While using heating oil might be okay for a more moderate climate, like Britain, it could pose problems in a harsher winter location. And, for the cold season, it's best to buy new diesel fuel here at the beginning of winter to get the winter blend, rather than in late summer, when it's still summer blend.

Sounds like you've bought real diesel fuel, so all should be well! 

We have here winter/arctic/santa quality diesel. Small oil heaters are not that uncommon....air pre heater is one that I have more trouble with. I don't think I need these most time, hope I keep the alligator in warm storage  and that should keep it ready to start. Prob. a preheater over muffler could keep the bugger running if it gets -35C cold outside.

Pekka

[PekkaNF]

Bugger.....

1) Got be a dedicated driver an host on one dinner, that took care of yesterday.

2) Got 10-15 cm snow, threes looks droopy, but it probably gets warmer and there is no wind now. Snow gives a little stuff to do and then wife need us to go shopping. Apparently everyone else had the same idea.....took a little longer.

So I haven't run the new generator yet. Has to remove the tank and mysteryfuel that is inside of it.

The tank has paper filter inside and the whole system is gravity fed. Tank is small and I'm considering a bigger tank after a little while.

Question: Is there a good fuel filtration system on gravity fed system?

Or, am I better off with transfer pump and automotive or such filter pack?

Thanks,
Pekka

[PekkaNF]

I cleaned up the fuel tank, double checked everything, filled the tank with fuel and tried to bleed the system. No luck. Took it back to shop and picked it up later. The injection pump plunger had stuck....not sure how did they free it, but now it starts first time.

I have to see it runs least 20 h or so before doing anything to it, but the plan is to remove original tank and replace it with a bigger tank. I have two reasons: I want fuel filter out of the tank and really more than three hours of run time would be nice.

There is two avenues I need to check:
1) Gravity fed fuel tank location is limitation when it comes to fuel filter. If I put oversize car or marine filter pack (two units, one to separate water) do I get away with modest head? Or do I really need a electric transfer pump?

2) If I need an electric transfer pump, then oil level and engine temperature switch connected to stop-solenoid would be prudent as well. Right now the motor has no electric parts. Not even a single wire. Neat.

Pekka

[awemawson]

I'm still waiting on a 1/4" BSP banjo bolt and 8 mm banjo to couple the fuel to my new generator, but I did re-wire the starting circuits and a fuel lift pump the other day. Amazingly it started first turn just on the fuel left in the filter canister 

[vtsteam]

My Lister diesel doesn't need electricity to run, so far, either.

Awhile back, I was thinking about using a strand of solder as a mechanical fusible link that would break if the head overheated from loss of coolant, and allow a spring to shut the fuel rack. Wasn't sure where to put it -- probably near the exhaust manifold, and was going to check the engine when warmed up with an IR thermometer to find a workable location.

[awemawson]

Steve would solder not melt at rather too high a temperature? Something like 'woods metal' or cerrocast, which are low melting point bismuth based alloys might be in a better range.

Or butcher the wax cartridge from a vehicle thermostat, which after all are set at about the right temperature.

[vtsteam]

Andrew, I think exhaust temps can be up there. The trick would be to find somewhere that normally doesn't get above say 300F. But rises rapidly if something goes wrong.

Maybe even a fusible plug somewhere in the exhaust manifold, cast with an eye to hook the spring onto. I don't know -- didn't investigate it further for specific temps and materials.

My Listeroid is water cooled, so coolant loss is a problem that an air-cooled engine wouldn't have.

Though thinking about it -- exhaust temp probably would go up for oil loss, or over temp, too.

In flying ultralights with air cooled 2 stroke engines EGT was constantly monitored, and gave faster indications than CHT (also monitored)

[mattinker]

I understand why you like the idea that you can build an non-electric safety shut down, but it is running a generator, I don't see the point!

Regards, Matthew.

[awemawson]

I understand why you like the idea that you can build an non-electric safety shut down, but it is running a generator, I don't see the point!

Regards, Matthew.

Good point Matthew, and probably just needs a hold in solenoid in series with a bi-metallic strip. 

[vtsteam]

Simplicity and cost, Matt.

A diesel fuel rack closure would require  an electronic actuator strong enough and with enough throw to close the fuel rack, plus a sensor, logic and likely a low voltage DC power supply.

To perform the same function that a bit of solder and a spring would.

A fusible link would also be able to handle generator overload and/or catastrophic failure. A fusible link would also be more robust, being simple and mechanical, and easy to check for condition.

Anyway, different folks, different boats, as I used to say! 
 

[vtsteam]

ps. how does the electronic version open the rack to start? And if normally open, and needs power to close, what happens when the engine shuts down and voltage drops? Does it open again before the crank is stationary? On my 600 RPM engine with 24" flywheels and huge inertia, you'd be off and running again as soon as it passed TDC.

Can't use logic here because the circuit is dead. Can't use it to begin with when trying to start because it's also dead, so you need a mechanical lock or latch (likely more materials than the fusible link system was altogether), or a battery. Battery must be kept charged and maintained on an emergency generator, etc. etc.

There are solutions to every electromechanical problem, including this one. but I like simple robust mechanical solutions, rather than electronics, wherever possible.

[mattinker]

I suspected as much! I can see a small electric motor driving allthread with a nut on it as an actuator, wall wart power and a thermostatic switch! This is a safety device so it only needs resetting after a potential overheating.
 That wouldn't be the same challenge but it wouldn't be expensive either.

Regards, Matthew.

[vtsteam]

Well, playing devil's advocate here because I like solving how-to puzzles, you might be able to latch an electromechanical system with a big capacitor that bleeds down slowly enough after the engine is stationary, without needing a battery. And using a counter balance spring maybe a solenoid might be strong enough and have enough throw. Either that, or the solenoid throws a latch to stop. Anyway, it's do-able if someone wants to think it through.

[PekkaNF]

I would be happy if I could keep the motor as simple as possible. Another thing is that I don't want to complicate generator/mains side. I would hate to have wallwarts or such on generator that is going to get the handling portable emergency/construction site generator is getting.

My engine is fairly similar than this one but this one has whole lot more features e.r. clutter:

This has at 2:50 shut off solenoid. very similar than on my oil burner on furnace. I would need a provision for manual override.

I didn't though of the mechanical over temperature shutdown, but I can imagine it's doable. Fusible links? Bowden cable?

Pekka

[awemawson]

Surely a simple solenoid holding the end of the spring in series with a bi-metallic strip. Hold solenoid in manually when starting, the generator will then continue holding it, and drop out on over heat.

My new generator has an oil pressure gauge with a sensing contact on it to wire to the control box for 'shut down on low pressure'. There is a button on the front of the gauge to press when starting to provide a similar force condition.

[vtsteam]

I like that one Andrew. 

[awemawson]

'swhat I was advocating in post #14 

[vtsteam]

Ah, didn't get the "Hold in solenoid" part. 

[mattinker]

I would hate to have wallwarts or such on generator that is going to get the handling portable emergency/construction site generator is getting.

Using wallwarts as a tiny power supply is a good solution for low voltage DC. They don't have to take up a power point, just pick up 220/240 or 110 volts ( the European model that we have in France are particularly interesting with their 6mm round pins which accept dominoes making connecting wires on extremely easy). Tucked out of the way in an electrical junction box, they needn't take up much room.