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Author Topic: what did i get myself into ?????  (Read 21014 times)

Offline chuck foster

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what did i get myself into ?????
« on: December 03, 2009, 08:32:50 PM »
please raise your hand if you have ever said yes to a job and then after wish you hadn't.  :scratch:
ok it's good to see i'm not alone in that regard  :clap:

well a good friend of mine collects and restores full size hit and miss engines. about 2 months ago he told me he wanted me to make some parts for one of his engines.
i thought that would be ok so i said bring over the bit and pieces and i will see what i could do.

so here is what he brought me. two cylinder heads.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5341.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

both cylinder heads are from 1 3/4 hp associated gas engines. i didn't think it was going to be to bad of a job..................then i took a closer look  :doh:
the valves are seized and my friend decided the best way to un-seize then was to beat them to death with a big hammer. i the picture you can see the end of one valve stem is all burred over from the hammering.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5333.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

this next picture shows the end of one valve stem is broken off................from the beating with a hammer.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5340.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

flip the head over and.............oh..............he managed to bend the other end of the valve :doh:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5338.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

the valves use a keeper on the end to hold the spring on, and it is supposed to look like this

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5343.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

how he manged to beat one in to this mess i will never know...............cold chisel ??

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5346.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

and the exhaust rocker arm pivot on one head looks like this

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5339.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

but the other head looks like this..............gee i wonder what happened :scratch: :scratch:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5335.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

so what should have been a simple job of heating the valve stems with the torch and gently removing the valves and regrinding the valve faces and seats turned into making 4 new valves (cause he bent all of them) and making 3 new valve keepers. oh yeah i forgot i have to fix the broken exhaust rocker arm pivot.

he keeps me busy fixing stuff he has broken....................next time i will tell you about the way he removed a piston that was seized in
a cylinder.................dynamite and a match is all he needed  :bugeye:

chuck  :wave:

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Offline Darren

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 08:37:04 PM »
Me thinks your friend needs another hobby,,,,,

Knitting comes to mind ..... :coffee:
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Offline ksouers

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2009, 08:43:26 PM »
Take away his hammers!!!

For your own sake!


Kevin
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Offline dsquire

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2009, 08:48:13 PM »
Quote from: chuck foster on December 03, 2009, 08:32:50 PM
please raise your hand if you have ever said yes to a job and then after wish you hadn't.  :scratch:
ok it's good to see i'm not alone in that regard  :clap:
.
.
.
.
he keeps me busy fixing stuff he has broken....................next time i will tell you about the way he removed a piston that was seized in
a cylinder.................dynamite and a match is all he needed  :bugeye:

chuck  :wave:




Chuck

I have been there and done that on too many occasions.

I do want to hear about that seized piston though.  :lol: :lol:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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Offline Ned Ludd

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2009, 09:24:15 PM »
Hi Chuck,
Oh what fun.
You will have to learn to say to people who want you to do a "little" job for them, "bring it over and I will take a look, before committing myself" I use it every time, stops them getting their hopes up too much.

If a job isn't a challenge, it ain't no fun.  :bang: so nice when it stops

Do we get to see the finished product and a blow by blow account?
Ned Ludd
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Offline chuck foster

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2009, 09:31:41 PM »
if anyone would like a detailed account of how i fix this mess i would be more that happy to do so.

the more he brakes the more money i make, but this time his broken parts interupt my building of the domestic hit and miss engine found here http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2266.0

oh well it will be cash in my pocket so that helps  :D

chuck  :wave:
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 02:16:25 AM »
Quote from: ksouers on December 03, 2009, 08:43:26 PM
Take away his hammers!!!

For your own sake!


Kevin


I would agree with that sneak round at night and pinch them, then burry them in a deep hole.

 :D

I hate to see machines abused by hammers  :(


Hammers are a last resort and only when you know what your doing.

Cheers

Stew

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bogstandard

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 02:49:34 AM »
Chuck,

That is an awful way to treat machinery.

Just letting the original parts (still covered in muck and grime) soak for a week in a bath of diesel oil, and they would have most probably fallen apart.

Those valves will now most probably have to be drilled out now, as they are guaranteed to have swelled up in the guides.

Blasting has done it no favours in the get apart stakes either, just a tiny bit down a bore can lock everything up solid.

I know where his hammers should end up, and not in a hole in the ground either, but rather up another one.


John
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Offline Bernd

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 10:52:15 AM »
Quote from: chuck foster on December 03, 2009, 08:32:50 PM
well a good friend of mine collects and restores full size hit and miss engines.

I have to hold my hand in the air to your question. I've since learned not to volenteer my machining skills so fast anymore.

There are two words in here that don't make sense for this thread: "restores" and "engines". :scratch:

If "beating with a hammer" means restoring and he has many "engines" they must all be for static display only.  :lol:

I'm with Darren, I think he should take up another hobby. Since he's quite handy with a hammer perhaps black smithing would work for him.  :D

Bernd
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Offline chuck foster

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 12:58:21 PM »
well i got working on cylinder head number 1 this morning, and bogs you were right about the valve not needing much to get it unstuck. just heated it with my propane torch for about 5 minutes and out it came.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5356.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

here the valve is out of the head, now i had to cut the valve stem off because it was bent and wouldn't pass through the valve guide.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5358.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

three of the four valve keepers are ok so i will only have to make one. i will start off with a short piece of one inch dia. hot rolled steel (on the right)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5359.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

i started off by facing it off and turning one end down to fit inside the valve spring.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5360.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

next i center drilled and then drilled a 1/8" dia. pilot hole

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5361.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

then drilled and then reamed a 3/8" dia. hole for the valve stem to fit into and filed a small radius to match the original

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5363.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

then over to the mill to drill a hole for the tapered pin and set screw holes that keep the valve keeper on the valve stem

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5368.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

taped

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5369.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

finished keeper on the valve

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5371.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

new valve keeper on the left, my friend will have to supply the new exhaust valve spring. now all i have to do to finish this head is lap both valves.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/IMG_5374.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

now on to the next head...........and it is allot worse than this one was.
i will do the valve lapping last.

hope you are enjoying the first installment on this little adventure.

chuck  :wave:
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bogstandard

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 01:21:47 PM »
This is great work Chuck.

I really enjoy watching old stuff being brought back from the dead, and given a new lease of life.

If every engineer or machinist just did one bit of work like this, just think of how much of our heritage could be saved.

Respect


John
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Offline sorveltaja

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2009, 03:12:56 PM »
Chuck, although I have never seen full size hit'n'miss engine, except on pictures and videos(not sure if they even exist in this country), it's interesting to see your work on that restoring :wave:.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 03:22:04 PM by sorveltaja »
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2009, 03:40:50 PM »
Been there (raises hand)

But wow oh wow Chuck... you are doing fantastic work!

So let me get this right, heating the bent valve should allow me to pop it out? Got one stuck in a motorcycle head like that.

Eric
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Offline chuck foster

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2009, 08:25:36 PM »
thanks john for the kind comment, i have done this kind of restoration for the last 30 years and i still enjoy doing it.

here is the only picture i have of the full size engine that the cylinder heads go on to

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/aermotor8/WebJboyAPR05a.jpgwhat did i get myself into ?????

eric: the heat only expands the valve guide a few tho. if it is bent you will have to cut the bent part off, before you drive the valve out.
some times heating will not be enough and you have to drill the old valve out. on a modern motorcycle the valve might be too hard to drill.

didn't get much more done this afternoon but i plan on getting more done tomorrow.

chuck  :wave:
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2009, 02:04:31 AM »
Great work Chuck  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

What do you make the replacement valve from. ?

Enjoying this thread

Stew
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Offline chuck foster

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Re: what did i get myself into ?????
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2009, 10:26:55 AM »
stew the replacement valve will be made of hot rolled steel. i have made valves from all kinds of different metal's and the best seems to be cold rolled.

i'm glad you are enjoying this thread.

chuck  :wave:
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