Seig C4 Electrics

[Fredbare]

I wonder if anyone can help me with my Seig C4.
It was working fine yesterday, but this morning when I started I could not adjust its speed or turn it off ( even with the emergency stop which really seems odd) the only way was at the main switch. When I turned it back on, the front panel lights up and the cooling fan runs,  but thats all, no motor.
 The motor is a DC 1000w and I am not familiar with the DC controller, the fuses are OK, and the only voltages that I recognise to check are L1, N1 which is 240v AC and the 5V DC and both check out OK, is it possible to check the relay, are there any other checks I can make?
Many thanks
John

[John Rudd]

Fredbare,
The motor on the C4 in your case is the 1000w brushless type, with the accompanying controller.....not the usual brushed type fitted to the earlier and smaller C3 mills/lathes....
Info on these is sketchy at best....I suggest you contact Ketan at Arceurotrade and seek advice from him....

Poking around on these controllers isnt a good idea as there is over 300 v dc on the main board...but if you feel confident, unplug it from the mains and a have a good look for discoloration/burning etc....blown fuses etc...

[Fredbare]

Thanks John for your reply, I should have said it was a brushless motor and controller. I know my way around a brushed controller, having upgraded  the motor and controller on my milling machine, but thanks for the advice re 300v I did note the large caps, but always grateful for a reminder.
Currently I suspect the relay, and would like to test this on the board if possible.
John

[John Rudd]

Fredbare/John,
The relay can be tested by applying an external supply to the coil connections and checking the continuity with an ohm meter across the contacts....

The relay will probably need something like 12- 24 v dc for the coil...I cant read the coil voltage from the foto...

As I dont know your level of expertise with electronics, checks should be done with power off....

[John Swift]

a web search for 953-1A-220AG-1   found this

http://akizukidenshi.com/download/ds/hsinda/953G%20Relay.pdf

if I've read it correctly,  the relay  has a 220V AC coil


       John

[Fredbare]

Thanks John R  decided to go with 220v AC as 12v dc did not work.
Removed board from the lathe, and tested the contacts, that should be normally open, they were CLOSED, which would account for not being able to switch the lathe off normally, measured the resistance across the coil it was 14.4 K ohms.
Decided to remove the relay from the board, it was quite difficult due to the heat sink on the back being in the way, it is as big as the board,  I could not remove the heat sink because there are 7 components stuck to it with adhesive pads, and soldered to the board.
Once the relay was off the board I put 220v through the coil and the contacts closed, and opened, every time, (sods law) but I still intend to replace it.
Thanks John S the PDF is very useful, I did a search for that but could not find it.
The only place I could find a replacement is in China so I have some ordered. I have everything crossed now hoping that the relay IS the only  problem.
Will let you know how I get on.
Thanks again to both John's for your help.
John

[Fredbare]

Still waiting for the relay I ordered from China, had an email from the supplier and it doesn’t look good, so I decided to go back and look at the original relay that I removed from the control board.

I connected the relay coil to a 220v supply and switching it on and off many times, it worked every time, so I decided to install it back on the board.
As it was difficult to remove from the board (due to the proximity of the heat sink), I decided to re-solder the relay to the board using cable, which will make replacement easier, and there is enough room to tuck the relay into the cabinet and refit the end cover.
 I am now up and running again, I should have thought of this weeks ago.

Now that I know that I am not restricted to fitting the exact same relay, I am  looking for one of similar spec and hopefully better quality, the only restraint is size.
4pin
220ac coil
30a contacts
However in my searches they mention latching relays,  now I am confused, what I should be looking for

[John Swift]

Hi Fred

this relay from rapid online looks like the relay used on your lathe -
http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-components/hongfa-hf105f-1-240at-1zst-136-pcb-mount-relay-240v-ac-spdt-63-1524

this one has both the N/O and N/C contacts just ignore the N/C terminal

   John

[Fredbare]

Thank John,
I did see that in my search, but the description does not fit with the what's printed on the case of the relay in with the photograph, which says "coil 12vdc"

John

[John Swift]

 
they have used the photo of a 12V relay but
the rapid  Order Code: 63-1524  is for the HF105F-1/240AT-1ZST

decoding the  240AT-1ZST   using
http://www.rapidonline.com/pdf/507575_da_en_01.pdf

240AT = the relay has a 240V AC coil  , without the switch common
pin 6 (near the coil terminals)

1Z = form C  the double throw / change over switch

S = plastic seal

T = AgSnO2 contacts

    John

PS

relay terminals
 

[Fredbare]

Thanks John for the explanation, that now makes sense to me.

John