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Author Topic: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine  (Read 144281 times)

Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2009, 03:39:23 AM »
Thanks Stew and David, it's coming slowly.....soon it will look like something.

Slightly hampered by all the machine setting up, but that's a good thing  :thumbup:
Certainly will help on future projects.... :ddb:
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2009, 03:53:44 PM »
Quote
You wanna see me go "Chuff"    :scratch:



Well it's got to be better than going "Puff"! hasn't it ??


No one likes things going up in smoke!...... Why, what else did you think I meant?   :lol:




Ralph.
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Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #77 on: April 16, 2009, 06:06:53 PM »
Quote from: Divided he ad on April 16, 2009, 03:53:44 PM


No one likes things going up in smoke!...... Why, what else did you think I meant?   :lol:




Ralph.

I've no idea  :lol:
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bogstandard

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #78 on: April 16, 2009, 06:22:09 PM »
Darren,

I have noticed how well you are settling down to 'precision' engineering.

There is one major problem with it.

When I want to do a bit of rough stuff, my mind wants to stay in precision mode, and it is actually a real effort just to hack a bit off here and there, I start looking round for marking blue, a vernier and a square.

Eventually as you get more into it, you will want more and more accuracy, so you start to upgrade your machines with DRO's etc. But you should still carry on marking up as normal. That is your failsafe double check when using the DRO. If they both match up, the job should be spot on.

If your marking out is done well, and you machine to 'split the line', you should be within the generally acceptable tolerance of 0.002" (0.05mm).

John
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Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #79 on: April 16, 2009, 06:39:41 PM »
One of the tasks in hand filled me with trepidation,

2.5mm tapping...how on earth was I going to achieve this without breaking taps, even worse ruining parts that had taken several hours to make..


The answer as usual came from one of our regular members.... :ddb:
Whilst visiting John (Bogs) I spotted a tapping stand, the seed was sewn.....!

I don't have a tapping stand, but I do have this, had it for years and never even switched it on, let alone used it. Piece of rubbish I thought.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1676.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

Today I dug it out and had a real good look at it, thinking I could strip it down and make a tapping stand from it. It was rusty, very rusty but non-the-less I had to admit to myself that it wasn't rubbish at all. In fact it looked to be very well made with some really nice quality castings.

Ho hum, another machine to clean up and test...... :dremel:
I'm sorry now that I didn't take some before pictures, I didn't really think this was going to go anywhere..... :doh:

Here is the base and main pillar after a bit of a clean up

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1666.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

The table

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1675.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

The downfeed handle.
Notice the rusty belt tensioner behind, it was all like this but cleaned up quite easily. (note, the shaft, bearings and all important parts where well greased and in excellent condition, not rusty)

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1673.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

I decided that for tapping I didn't want the return/lift spring in opperation, so I tried to slacken it. then it broke... :doh:

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1667.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

I tried bending the remaining end into a new loop but it just snapped. Now I was stuck, what to do?
I heated the very end of the spring to bright cherry red with a blowlamp, it only took a couple of seconds. After this it bent easily into the shape I wanted without snapping  :ddb:

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1669.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

It fits here held by a single grub screw, this is important later...

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1670.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1674.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

All back together I decided to try it as a drilling machine. Fitted a 1mm drill bit switched on and...........
It didn't wobble.....I was expecting it to.... :scratch: In fact it looked superbly true....
So I tried drilling a chunk of brass and it drilled perfectly with no fuss.....

Oh hum, it's a good un I thought. Perfect for small drill bits and small parts. Speeds turned ot to be 2525, 1485 and 830 rpm, again good for small drill bits.

But I wanted a tapping stand..... :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

So, belt off, tension spring off (remember just one allen grub screw) and have a go at tapping....

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1678.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

Finger tip power only as Bogs suggested, easy, no probs there as this is only a 2.5mm tap.
It tapped beautifully, smooth as anything.....

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1679.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

What's more I managed eight holes without breaking a single tap

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1692.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine

I'm stunned, I was expecting to break a tap...... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

Now I realise why people use tapping stands. The feel you get is incredible, it's hard to describe, but I'd imagine you'd have a job to break a tap with a set-up like this.
I used to use the miller to keep taps square, but you just don't get the feel.......SNAP !!!

Well, now I have a nice fine small drilling machine and a tapping stand. Bonus is it only takes seconds to convert between the two. Take me longer to find the right sized allen key !!






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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #80 on: April 16, 2009, 06:46:53 PM »
Good one Darren  :clap: My next job is going to be a tapping stand next before i start back on my Loco  :thumbup:

Stew
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Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #81 on: April 16, 2009, 06:58:56 PM »
Quote from: bogstandard on April 16, 2009, 06:22:09 PM

I have noticed how well you are settling down to 'precision' engineering.


Thanks for noticing John, I am trying....very, some would say.....!!


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bogstandard

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #82 on: April 16, 2009, 07:12:27 PM »
Very nice rescue Darren.

Now you have learned about 'feel'.

By using my tapping stand, I tapped about 30 10BA threads last week in a job (1.4mm tapping drill), and not one of them felt as if it was going to break.

Below about 5mm you really do need that 'feel'. With larger sizes you can usually get away with it.

They are available for reasonable prices in the market place, but I have heard that sometimes you can get the odd one made by a cross eyed Chinaman with no arms.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Tap-Wrenches

Bogs
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #83 on: April 16, 2009, 08:07:50 PM »
Very good Darren.

Another trick I've learned is that you hold on the round part of the tap not on the little square part at the top. If the drill is small I just hand tighten the tap in the chuck. If it gets stuck it will spin in the chuck.

Bernd
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Offline HS93

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #84 on: April 17, 2009, 12:35:52 AM »
after a trip to Bogs Towwers and saw what Mr Bogs uses ,I have Just bought one of the ARC tapping stands and it's ok . the problem was I thought it was going to be a bit bigger that it is, but that is not a problem as it will do everything I will want it to do, I was hopping to use the base to set out on but its a bit small.

Chronos do one as well if you are in no rush to tap holes this year.

Peter
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Offline NickG

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #85 on: April 17, 2009, 03:50:56 AM »
Good stuff Darren,

the way I do it is usually in the milling machine, I still use a tap wrench but gripped on the round section of the tap, further down nearer the cutting edges. I then lightly grip the upper part in the chuck jaws so that the tap can still rotate and slide up and down in the jaws, so the chuck is just being used to align the tap but still let it move and allow use of the tap wrench to get the feel. Seems to work for me but it would be a much slicker operation with a proper tapping stand!

Nick
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Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #86 on: April 17, 2009, 05:34:54 AM »
Thanks Guys,

Nick what I found with using the mill is that the collet chuck, spindle, pulley and other parts are quite big and heavy. The rotating mass takes away most of the "feel" with such a small tap.
I tried just nipping the chuck (collet in my case) by hand so the tap could slip if need be. Trouble was it was difficult to determine if the tap was slipping because the collet wasn't tight enough or if the tap was getting stuck in the part.

The balance was quite hard to overcome. With a much smaller set up, very small pillar drill in my case, a lot of mass has now gone making it much easier to feel what is going on.

I also held the part with my left hand whilst using the right hand to turn the chuck. By not holding the part in a vice any stickiness gave you feedback and the part had a little give in my fingers. This was the time to reverse the tap before continuing.

You could say a very sensitive setup all round. I'm not saying any other way is wrong, just what worked for me. If you can do it another way, and it works, then that is also the right way... :thumbup:
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #87 on: April 17, 2009, 11:35:18 AM »
Nice job Darren.  :headbang:

Starting to get tool envy here! Rock on  :headbang:

Eric
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Offline NickG

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #88 on: April 17, 2009, 05:34:17 PM »
Sounds like a good setup Darren, what I meant was, I still use the tap wrench to turn the tap, not the chuck. I leave the chuck stationary, purely there as a guide. Your method is still superior though, think I have an old chinese drill somewhere that could be utilised, however, the quality of the castings / spindle will not be as good as yours either. Nice job.
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Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #89 on: April 17, 2009, 06:35:29 PM »
Ah, I see... :thumbup:

Thanks for the clarification Nick, I can see how that would work for you.... :clap:

Why not dig that old pillar drill out and give it a go. You never know it might just give you a little more feedback...
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Offline NickG

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #90 on: April 19, 2009, 05:20:59 PM »
Think I might do, would be good to have a dedicated tool for the job too as not everything is done in the milling machine. Steam engine is looking great by the way, some nice aesthetic detailing, I should definitely learn from some of your methods here ... great write up, keep it going.  :clap:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #91 on: April 19, 2009, 08:45:06 PM »
Thanks Nick,

Don't worry, this thread is set to continue, I've been a little distracted by another project..... :thumbup:
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Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2009, 07:45:18 PM »
I drilled some holes in a little plate tonight.....

So what I hear you say, well it took me ages that's what.........., all night in fact.
Jeeze the concentration, nearly did me in... :lol:

I marked it off the other day, but I used the mill to position all the holes. The mill says my marking wasn't that accurate, but they did show me a couple of wrongs turns on the mill before I flunked it :thumbup:

Only one more to do  :bugeye:

I need to make two 18mm holes in this plate and I'm not sure how to go about it.
I'm guessing drill first to say 14mm, biggest drill I have under 18mm and then use the tool in the picture. I don't have a boring head for the mill, but this is like a miniature version of one.
It's for the lathe turret.

Any tips chaps?

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/Steam%20Engines/First%20Build/IMG_1848.jpgTwin Cylinder Steam Engine
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2009, 02:02:31 AM »
Yes

Have a practice first in a bit of scrap you don't want to drill all those holes again in a new bit of plate, perhaps you should have done the 18mm hole first then if it went wrong your not scrapping off too mush time.  :bang:

When you get the right size in the scrap mark the tool position in some way so you can get back to it when you do it for real.

That tool look like its got two way adjustment you only need one so lock one up.

Is the tool steel square or round?.

and keep your fingers crossed  :lol:

Have fun

Stew


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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2009, 02:06:55 AM »
Darren

Did I give you any small gold plated boring bars, if so they would be great to do this job just make an holder for one.

Stew
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bogstandard

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #95 on: April 25, 2009, 02:27:44 AM »
Darren,

Have you a set of cone drills, they are perfect for jobs such as this, and I have found they cut perfectly on size. I use mine all the time on thinnish sheet requiring big holes.
The only probem is that sometimes the size you are after isn't in the range. I wish they would bring them out in both odds and evens sizes.

John
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Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2009, 03:39:50 AM »
Quote from: sbwhart on April 25, 2009, 02:06:55 AM
Darren

Did I give you any small gold plated boring bars, if so they would be great to do this job just make an holder for one.

Stew

Gold  :bugeye: Nope, nobody's ever been kind enough to give me any gold  :lol:   

Boring bar...umm... :thumbup:

Tool steel is 1/2 round, .....
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 03:49:13 AM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2009, 03:40:52 AM »
Quote from: bogstandard on April 25, 2009, 02:27:44 AM
Darren,

Have you a set of cone drills,
John

Sadly no, not yet, I knew you would have a simple answer.... :clap:
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #98 on: April 25, 2009, 04:32:30 AM »
Quote from: Darren on April 25, 2009, 03:39:50 AM
Quote from: sbwhart on April 25, 2009, 02:06:55 AM
Darren

Did I give you any small gold plated boring bars, if so they would be great to do this job just make an holder for one.

Stew

Gold  :bugeye: Nope, nobody's ever been kind enough to give me any gold  :lol:   

Boring bar...umm... :thumbup:

Tool steel is 1/2 round, .....

Ok next time your at Johns then I'll fix you up with some

Stew

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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Twin Cylinder Steam Engine
« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2009, 05:03:29 AM »
Darren..... If you haven't already then hold fire..... I'll be there by 13:00 and I'll have something special for you  :thumbup: 

May just help you out?


Got to go now.... I've got a bit of sorting to do and a back seat to load up  :ddb:



Ralph.
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