Author Topic: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question. (Read 144336 times)

garym · « **Reply #100 on:** April 23, 2014, 04:08:45 AM »

Has anybody used Windows 8 yet and if so what do you think of it? I'm not keen on the changes but I can see why they've done them (to try and keep up with Google and Apple). I used to love technology and computers but as I've got older I just want things to stay the same. I'm quite capable of learning new stuff but find that I'm spending more and more time learning how things work than actually using them for something useful. It's like having to learn how a lathe works every few years instead of making things on it. Maybe that's what drew me to model engineering after all.

Gary

David Jupp · « **Reply #101 on:** April 23, 2014, 06:53:10 AM »

Quote from: garym on April 23, 2014, 04:08:45 AM

Has anybody used Windows 8 yet and if so what do you think of it? ......

Gary

I run Win8.1 with latest updates - Win 8.1 was somewhat of an improvement over 8 (but beware Microsoft trying to force you to use 'Windows Logins' for setting up accounts - may be OK for some, but a nightmare in a conventional windows network).

Latest updates in May 2014 finally acknowledged that not everyone has a touch screen, also brought back more of the ways to access things by RMB on the start button.

Search facility is good - it has to be though because they've moved so many features around that finding them was a nightmare (less so after latest updates). It is excellent for locating seldom used programs.

I jumped straight from XP (had only minor experience of Vista & 7 though fixing problems for others). I'm just about used to it now.

garym · « **Reply #102 on:** April 23, 2014, 07:54:35 AM »

Thanks for the reply David. I'd spotted the thing about having to set up an account to finish setup and I'm not keen. It's like they've replaced the windows profile with an online account, just like you have to use for Apple and Android tablets. It's beginning to feel like a constant battle to retain a degree of control over your information. I've already sold my soul to Google and I'd rather not do the same with Microsoft but I may be forced to.

Gary

David Jupp · « **Reply #103 on:** April 23, 2014, 08:53:25 AM »

You don't HAVE to set up the account, but they really do try to hide that fact.

I upgraded win8 -> win8.1 on my laptop, ended up having to delete my users account and set up a new one to recover from the 'windows account' rubbish.

Being wise to that, I deliberately chose NOT to use Windows account when installing Win8.1N on my new desktop.

DavidA · « **Reply #104 on:** April 24, 2014, 05:26:13 AM »

Meanwhile, back at the Linux farm.(should that be zoo ?)

Much is said about the various flavours of Linux being immune to virus attacks. Is this true ?

Does it really mean that you can junk all those anti virus programs, anti malware programs etc that take a chunk of your cash every year ?

Dave.

awemawson · « **Reply #105 on:** April 24, 2014, 05:49:04 AM »

I never understood this 'immune to viruses' thing with Linux / Unix. Surely if everything is open source it is even more vulnerable.

Perhaps it's just a volume thing. Very small proportion of desk top / home systems run it so it's not targeted as much maybe?

AdeV · « **Reply #106 on:** April 24, 2014, 08:39:43 AM »

Quote from: awemawson on April 24, 2014, 05:49:04 AM

I never understood this 'immune to viruses' thing with Linux / Unix. Surely if everything is open source it is even more vulnerable.

Perhaps it's just a volume thing. Very small proportion of desk top / home systems run it so it's not targeted as much maybe?

Small volumes are part of the reason people don't target Linux/Unix systems; but they are also inherently more secure than Windows - e.g. everything typically runs in the logged in user's account, which will not have system privileges. What's more, nothing can "sneak" onto the system via a click or keypress, as it needs to ask for system privileges first, and that involves the user typing their password in (assuming, of course, they have those rights).

PS: Of course, Linux isn't totally immune - look at the recent Heartbleed exploit, which took advantage of a hole in OpenSSL (the open-source Secure Sockets Layer) to attack Linux (and other *nix) systems.

mattinker · « **Reply #107 on:** April 24, 2014, 08:48:31 AM »

I'm not qualified to give the full explanation, but a quick web search revealed this.

http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/284124-myth-busting-is-linux-immune-to-viruses

Regards, Matthew

DavidA · « **Reply #108 on:** April 24, 2014, 09:14:43 AM »

Mathew,

Very good link.

The general opinion seems to be that any real threat will come via attachments. So in that case of a site like this it will be usually via pictures. A real dagger in the heart if ever there was one.

But otherwise it seems fairly safe.

I'm off to read up on rkhunter.

Dave.

awemawson · « **Reply #109 on:** April 24, 2014, 10:37:28 AM »

Good link that raises MORE questions

What the heck is an RPM based system and what is BASH

DavidA · « **Reply #110 on:** April 24, 2014, 01:25:24 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Package_Manager

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash_%28Unix_shell%29

Hope these help a bit.

This is probably the biggest problem with any Linux system. Learning what all the acronyms mean.

Dave

BaronJ · « **Reply #111 on:** April 24, 2014, 04:02:48 PM »

Hi Guys,

Over time there has been numerous attempts to attack and compromise Linux systems. I only ever recall one virus in the twenty odd years of my running Linux. Windows is such an open target and is so widely used that its obvious that its the one to attack. Its so easy because Windows does all sorts of things, behind your back, so to speak. Arguably to be helpful !

Someone mentioned pictures. Well yes ! you can hide a virus in a picture or in music, or a pdf ect. But in order for it to do any damage it has to be executed by the cpu. If you can find a way to have the processor run the code then you have your access to that system. Linux is no different in this respect. However it is not only very very difficult to do on a Linux system but if it did it can only run as the user that activated it. The holy grail on a Linux system is obtaining "Root" access. Once this is done, you can do anything you like including wiping the whole system.

The current weak spot is actually the web browser ! Since the same web browsers run on both Windows and Linux these are now being targeted.

But virus are becoming old hat since for the attacker its is more profitable to steal credit card, bank account, passwords and other things, information that you may use in running your daily life.

CrazyModder · « **Reply #112 on:** April 25, 2014, 02:38:23 AM »

Quote from: awemawson on April 24, 2014, 05:49:04 AM

I never understood this 'immune to viruses' thing with Linux / Unix. Surely if everything is open source it is even more vulnerable.

That's easy. Unix has been a multi-user system from the very start; the universities had those big networked servers back in the days, and the students were allowed access to them, but (rightfully

) distrusted at every corner. So security has been built it right from the start. Being students, hacking the system, i.e. gaining "root" access to the system, was (and is) a sport, so there was (and is) a constant battle between highly intelligent and knowledgeable attackers and defenders (i.e., the programmers and administrators of the system software, firewalls etc. embedded in Unix systems).

Windows traces back to un-networked DOS, which was single user and had no security features at all at the beginning - nobody except yourself could access the machine, so why bother. Of course, it's gone a far way from that, today, but many of the concepts in Windows still are such that they are just fundamentally more open to attack than Unix. So in Windows there's a constant patching of holes, while in Unix the system is basically more or less sound from the beginning - security holes occasionally appear due to bugs (or lazy users

), but it stands on a much more secure base.

Having public access to the source code makes a software inherently *more* secure, because of peer review. There are many people who pride themselves in finding security holes first, and publish them on special web sites for everyone to see. If it's a glaring hole, then the developer of the software is usually informed up front so they can close it before really bad stuff happens. So open-source software is under much more scrutiny.

DavidA · « **Reply #113 on:** April 25, 2014, 01:17:15 PM »

..nobody except yourself could access the machine, so why bother...

The problem was that people used to swap files via floppies. And also buy programs on disc. Many of these had viruses attached

It was considered great fun (by some people who are now, hopefully, rotting in some version of Hell) to add little gifts like the much feared AntiCmos-A. Get that on your system and you could only pray for a miracle.

Dave.

mattinker · « **Reply #114 on:** April 25, 2014, 01:24:07 PM »

Quote from: DavidA on April 25, 2014, 01:17:15 PM

.. nobody except yourself could access the machine, so why bother...

The problem was that people used to swap files via floppies. And also buy programs on disc. Many of these had viruses attached

It was considered great fun (by some people who are now, hopefully, rotting in some version of Hell) to add little gifts like the much feared AntiCmos-A. Get that on your system and you could only pray for a miracle.

Dave.

Dave,

what have you decided to do, are you going to run a Linux system?

Regards, Matthew.

DavidA · « **Reply #115 on:** April 25, 2014, 01:46:08 PM »

Mathew,

Yes. However, I decided to save my self a little head scratching and have ordered a flash drive with Ubuntu already on it. I will use this to drive one of my spare machines until I get the hang of it. If I feel comfortable I can then install it on the HD and run that as a Ubuntu dedicated machine.
I need to check if my most used applications will transfer across. With that in mind I'll keep the XP machine set up as it is.

Should be fun.

Oh yes, I arrived at work today to find that our computer system has been infected by some virus. It runs on Windows 8 Professional.

Dave.

mattinker · « **Reply #116 on:** April 25, 2014, 03:09:17 PM »

Quote from: DavidA on April 25, 2014, 01:46:08 PM

Mathew,

Yes. However, I decided to save my self a little head scratching and have ordered a flash drive with Ubuntu already on it. I will use this to drive one of my spare machines until I get the hang of it. If I feel comfortable I can then install it on the HD and run that as a Ubuntu dedicated machine.
I need to check if my most used applications will transfer across. With that in mind I'll keep the XP machine set up as it is.

Should be fun.

Oh yes, I arrived at work today to find that our computer system has been infected by some virus. It runs on Windows 8 Professional.

Dave.

I'd be very interested to see how you get on, keep us up to date!

Regards, Matthew.

BaronJ · « **Reply #117 on:** April 25, 2014, 05:18:49 PM »

Quote from: DavidA on April 25, 2014, 01:46:08 PM

Mathew,

Yes. However, I decided to save my self a little head scratching and have ordered a flash drive with Ubuntu already on it. I will use this to drive one of my spare machines until I get the hang of it. If I feel comfortable I can then install it on the HD and run that as a Ubuntu dedicated machine.
I need to check if my most used applications will transfer across. With that in mind I'll keep the XP machine set up as it is.

Should be fun.

Oh yes, I arrived at work today to find that our computer system has been infected by some virus. It runs on Windows 8 Professional.

Dave.

Hello Dave,
The short answer is "NO" your applications will not transfer across ! But your data will. In other words you will be able to use Linux applications to access Windows data.

This is one of the reasons that virus and other nasties don't cause Linux problems. They are Windows programs !

garym · « **Reply #118 on:** April 26, 2014, 05:18:37 AM »

I'm going to give Linux Mint MATE a try. As long as David doesn't mind I'll post my experience here. I'm fairly cautious so it might be a slow process. I have a desktop machine which I store all my photos and music on, backed up to an external disk. It runs XP and I use this PC for online banking so I need to do something with it soonish. I use iTunes ( for my sins) to sync with an iPod which is not available for Linux so I'm going down the dual boot route. I've run the Live DVD session and had no problems with finding my way around. Next I need to make sure I've got everything backed up because the disk needs repartitioning to create somewhere to put the Linux system.

Gary

DavidA · « **Reply #119 on:** April 26, 2014, 06:18:09 AM »

Gary,

Please post anything you want related to to this subject on here. Although it was opened to get peoples views on Ubuntu it does make sense to use it as a general Linux experience thread. It will help us Linux neophytes to get a better idea of what the real world throws up.

Baron,

I suspected as much. I'll have to consider getting some replacements. Some programs, like my PICO scope, come with different versions on the dvd (Linux, Windows XP etc) so I am ok there. I suspect that I can get my Skypipe in a Linux version.
But I'll always keep a machine or two with the other Windows only programs in reserve. Plus, the DOS only machine will NEVER be scrapped. I fell out with Windows when I discovered that WINLink wouldn't run on XP. I liked that application.

Just have to wait for the Ubuntu to arrive now.

Dave.

BaronJ · « **Reply #120 on:** April 26, 2014, 08:57:22 AM »

Hi Dave,

WinLink that name rings a bell. If only I could remember why !
I believe that "PICO scope" uses Linux as its operating system. Certainly better than humping a heavy scope around. Unfortunately that was one of the bits of kit that was stolen when the shack got burgled of few years back.

I personally don't care for "Ubuntu" ! I find it a little restrictive but then again "Open SuSE" is very good. Whilst I don't use it at the moment, its major downside for me is the KDE4 desktop. I prefer "Trinity" which is a replacement for KDE3 and is what KDE3 should have become. So I now run a PCLinuxOS distribution which is ready built with "Trinity".

FWIW "Linux" really is just the kernel and is very much the same across different distributions. As far as I am aware the major distributions only make tweaks to the kernel to suit their own flavour. The big differences being the applications and desktop variants. I tend to describe Linux by comparing it with icecream, all icecream is the same its just the flavour that changes.

DavidA · « **Reply #121 on:** April 26, 2014, 12:25:52 PM »

Baron,

You have to be a bit careful with Pico. I bought my first single channel data logger many years ago and ran it happily on DOS.
I then bought an eight channel version (living in the fast lane now) that was to run on W95. But it was horribly unstable. After consulting Pico I discovered that this particular data-logger wouldn't run on all machines. It was motherboard dependant. I was a bit annoyed as it never mentioned this in the sales literature. I had lost a lot of data due to this thing. To be fair to them, Pico did offer to refund the cost of the unit.

I've just taken delivery of a new Picoscope, forget which one (it's still in the box) but it is the entry level two channel version. Cost £99. This one has XP and Linux versions of the software with it. So I'm hoping for better results .

Dave.

P.S. WinLink was a program that allowed you to control two computers from which ever one of the pair you decided to use as the Master. It came with a special cable to link the two 25 pin D type serial sockets together. All in all a very useful program. I believe you can do the same thing from DOS if you know how.

BaronJ · « **Reply #122 on:** April 26, 2014, 03:03:26 PM »

Hi Dave,

Quote

P.S. WinLink was a program that allowed you to control two computers from which ever one of the pair you decided to use as the Master. It came with a special cable to link the two 25 pin D type serial sockets together. All in all a very useful program. I believe you can do the same thing from DOS if you know how.

Ah yes ! Thanks for the reminder. A crossed over serial cable. I still have a couple kicking around, two "D" plugs on each end so you could plug into 9 or 25 pin D's. Kermit if I remember for data transfer. There was another one that was very popular that ran under DOS, Windows 286 and 3.11 but I don't remember its name. Not sure if it came from Linux originally.

I'm going to have to stop reminiscing or I'll spend all night trying to remember names of things.

raynerd · « **Reply #123 on:** April 26, 2014, 03:49:37 PM »

For £30, a raspberry pi is a great introduction to Linux!

BaronJ · « **Reply #124 on:** April 26, 2014, 04:12:14 PM »

Hi Guys,
This is the live CD/DVD all 1.7Gb of it, that I am using at the moment.
There is an updated version due anytime...

http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/trinitydesktop.org/trinity/trinity/rpm/pclinuxos/ISO/

News:

Author Topic: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question. (Read 144336 times)