Author Topic: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed  (Read 14955 times)

Offline Jimster

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Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« on: September 21, 2013, 05:28:46 PM »
I've just received my new toy, a Bridgeport series 1 interact. It has a TNC 150 B controller. Can this machine be drip fed?

Thanks

Jim

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2013, 03:46:01 AM »
Jim

Welcome

to try and answer your question search is your best friend

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,7228.0.html

have fun

Stuart




Offline AdeV

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2013, 09:09:10 AM »
To save you the hassle of searching, I'm afraid the answer is no, you can't drip-feed the 150. You need a TNC151 at minimum. You also can't feed it G-code, it will only understand Heidenhain Conversational - TBH that shouldn't be too much of a hassle, it's easy to learn.

Your biggest problem is you will be limited to 1000 line programs, which rules out most CAM outputs (a fairly simple part I'm working on produces a 2500 line program).

I believe, although I have never tried it, that upgrding to a 151 control is a straight swap-over, you would have to load your original machine parameters & guess/work out values for the new params (I have sample sets of both for a Series 1 Mk2). The alternative would be to rip all of the old control systems out and replace with modern PC based stuff. I don't know what's out there in the way of suitable servo drivers though.

You can download the manual for the TNC150 from Heidenhain's website, this will give you chapter & verse on what the control is capable of.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline The Steamer

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2013, 05:42:59 PM »
So the 151 can be drip fed Ade? I just presumed it couldn't be! something I may have to look into Thanks :)

Offline awemawson

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 03:40:50 AM »
Well certainly the TNC151B can be drip fed, as I used to have one and drove it that way.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline AdeV

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2013, 09:55:12 AM »
I'm fairly sure all the TNC151s can be drip-fed (A, B, Q, W, there's a couple of other variants too). Not all of them understand every command... and some (not mine  :palm:) have a central tool library.

I (briefly) owned a mill with a TNC150 & it was annoying to discover it couldn't be drip-fed.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Occasionally: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2013, 11:59:58 AM »
Hi there, all,

I'm not into CNC but I'm willing to learn.

Please could someone explain what the term 'drip-feed' means in a CNC context?
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline awemawson

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2013, 12:32:53 PM »
CNC controllers have limited internal memory. Older ones tend to have quite small memories. Early CNC controllers got over this limitation by having a paper tape reader built in, so that instead of obeying commands from memory, commands could be read from the tape.

As things developed controllers began to be introduced that had an RS232 serial port into which commands from an external device could be sent. This could be a serially connected tape reader, or, modern modern, a PC !

Some controllers will only take commands from either the internal memory, or the external port. Others will fill up the memory and as commands are obeyed will read more into memory. In either case you are 'dripping' your commands into the controller, hence drip feed.

My Fanuc 6 CNC control on my Wire EDM machine will take commands from memory or from tape but will not top up the memory.

My Heidenhain TNC355 on my Beaver Parts Master will top up memory as will the Traub TX-8F on my CNC lathe

Different manufacturers implement these things in different ways. The rather ancient Numericon 850 control on the Chipturn CNC lathe I sold earlier in the year would allow full control of the machine down the RS232 port so that the PC console became the machine console. This for a 1980's controller was quite advanced I think.

Nowadays of course we have controls that use ethernet wireless links.

My first 'Controller' was a pneumatic box attached to a Moog / Bridgeport Hydropoint 1000 where commands were either read from a bank of keys or from paper tape using air blown through the tape holes, and the axis drives were hydraulic servo systems using sliding perforated plates for positioning. I built a 'PC parallel to pneumatic' interface to replace the tape reader and amazingly it worked !!!!

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline dsquire

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2013, 09:58:29 PM »
Andrew

Thanks for answering that question. I didn't know what I didn't know until I read your answer above. I thought drip feeding was drip, drip, drip with some sort of oil/solvent combination for lubrication/cooling purpose.  :Doh:

Now some of the answers that I have read make more sense.  :doh:

Pete

Thanks for asking the question. :thumbup:

Cheers  :beer:

Don

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Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best

Offline Leblondmakino

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2014, 04:40:08 PM »
By the way..slightly off topic but www.memex.ca can upgrade the Fanuc 6 software to enable it to drip feed without any extra hardware! All they need is your software version so they can send a set of replacement modified Eproms..the upgrade adds another line on the setting page to set for drip feeding!!

They quoted me £900 for the upgrade last year.

John

Offline awemawson

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2014, 05:37:56 PM »
By the way..slightly off topic but www.memex.ca can upgrade the Fanuc 6 software to enable it to drip feed without any extra hardware! All they need is your software version so they can send a set of replacement modified Eproms..the upgrade adds another line on the setting page to set for drip feeding!!

They quoted me £900 for the upgrade last year.

John

Well £900 rules it out for me  :bugeye: My hobby already bankrupts me  :ddb:

Did you take up their offer ?


Andrew
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline mgnbuk

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2014, 03:44:14 PM »
I used to retrofit Heidenhain controls for a living at the time the TNC150 came out & came up with a partial solution to drip-feeding long programs for a customer who machined gas turbine compressor blades. The machines were Bridgeports that were originally controlled with the BOSS (?) stepper motor system. The machines had the knee controlled as the Z axis & had 4 heads mounted on a hammerhead shaped overarm - 4 blades were machined simultaneously. We replaced the steppers with dc servomotors & encoders (the same SEM motors & ERO encoders that Bridgeport used) & fitted the TNC150 - then just out. I guess that this would have been around 1984 - doesn't seem like 30 years ago !

I got around the 1000 line program limit by using a feature of the built-in PLC ( the PLC was one of the new features of the TNC 150 over the TNC 145 it replaced) - keystroke emulation - and the customer's download device. Basically the program was split into segments of just less than 1000 lines at a change-over point in the machining of the blade profile. Each program segment was called "Program 1" & numbered from line 1 - the segments being arranged for download sequentially on the download device, which deleted each segment after it had been downloaded.

An M code was programmed at the end of each segment that was decoded by the PLC program, which initiated a series of key strokes that :

Pressed Cycle stop, then internal stop to abort the program run
Changed to Program & Edit mode
Deleted the Program 1 in memory
Selected download Program 1 from the external device and pressed Enter
Generated a dwell longer than the time taken to download 1000 blocks
Selected Program Run Full sequence
Selected Program 1 to run from memory
Pressed Cycle Start to run the program

This arrangement worked very well, with just a short delay while each fresh segment loaded. The screens changed in the same way as if you were stood in front of the control pressing the buttons. We retrofitted 8 machines for this customer, which ran on a 24 hours / 7 days a week basis.

As I no longer work for this company  I don't have access to the PLC program back-ups any more, so can't supply you a copy I'm afraid.
The TNC 150 Commissioning manual gives details of how to program the PLC & the lists of signals between the control & the PLC. The standard Bridgeport PLC program is kept on an EPROM, but it is possible in parameters to set the PLC to run from RAM & the EPROM program can be copied into RAM to be modified via the keyboard. Access to the PLC is via Code Number 941026. Heidenhain have made the manuals for the obsolete controls available on their website - look under OMA (Operating Manual Archive) in the downloads section.

I don't recall using this for any other customers, though as the TNC 151/155 came along a year or so later with drip-feed capability there was no longer a requirement for it. If you go looking for a TNC151 to replace your 150, be aware that there were 3 different interface versions - make sure that the one you get has the same "2 rows of  3 x 10 pin" interface connectors under the metal cover at the rear + 5 x round encoder/handwheel connectors. There was a version that used a remote (extended capability) Input/output board that didn't have the 10 pin interface connectors (just a 37 way D-connector) and another version that used 5V TTL encoder feedback rather than the "usual" 11 micro-amp sinewave feedback - this has a multi-pin Harting connector instead of 3 of the circular encoder sockets. A TNC155 should also work - though I can't remember if the larger monitor was compulsory for the 155 to show the graphic simulation.

Regards,

Nigel B.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2014, 03:58:18 PM »
Nigel,

That show a fascinating insight and casts light on something I'm doing with my TNC355. Rather than hog this post I'll PM you.

Regards,

Andrew
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2014, 04:23:50 AM »
Nigel,

That show a fascinating insight and casts light on something I'm doing with my TNC355. Rather than hog this post I'll PM you.

Regards,

Andrew

Hi there, Andrew,

You could always launch another thread.   :thumbup:   :thumbup:   :thumbup: 
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline awemawson

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2014, 08:10:31 AM »
Nigel,

That show a fascinating insight and casts light on something I'm doing with my TNC355. Rather than hog this post I'll PM you.

Regards,

Andrew

Hi there, Andrew,

You could always launch another thread.   :thumbup:   :thumbup:   :thumbup:

Oh silly boy . . . don't encourage me  :ddb:

In fact there are two 'pending' threads - a 4th axis conversion and an experiment with 3D mapping. Just at the moment I'm struggling to dismantle a Nikken rotary table which will be the basis of the 4th axis - it's pneumatic brake is jammed on and dismantling the mechanism is defeating me. Two days on it so far  :scratch:

Andrew

Andrew
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline dsquire

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2014, 12:01:24 PM »
Nigel,

That show a fascinating insight and casts light on something I'm doing with my TNC355. Rather than hog this post I'll PM you.

Regards,

Andrew

Hi there, Andrew,

You could always launch another thread.   :thumbup:   :thumbup:   :thumbup:

Oh silly boy . . . don't encourage me  :ddb:

In fact there are two 'pending' threads - a 4th axis conversion and an experiment with 3D mapping. Just at the moment I'm struggling to dismantle a Nikken rotary table which will be the basis of the 4th axis - it's pneumatic brake is jammed on and dismantling the mechanism is defeating me. Two days on it so far  :scratch:

Andrew

Andrew

Andrew

Ok, if that is what it takes then I am going to encourage you to open another thread or two or three etc. How ever many it takes to keep us all up to speed on how an English gentleman spends his childrens inheritance.

I have always found your threads and posts most enjoyable and entertaining to read. On top of that I also learned a lot. Based on the number of views that your threads get I feel that a good portion of the members and guests feel the same way.  :D :)

Cheers  :beer:

Don 
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Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best

Offline awemawson

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2014, 03:10:30 PM »
Ok OK I give in - here you go:

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,9439.0.html

Andrew
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline dsquire

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Re: Heidenhain TNC 150 B Drip feed
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2014, 03:38:03 PM »
Ok OK I give in - here you go:

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,9439.0.html

Andrew

Thanks Andrew

Myself and others are already enjoying this fine thread.  :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don

Good, better, best.
Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best