Author Topic: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker  (Read 15498 times)

Offline awemawson

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Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« on: September 03, 2013, 12:22:45 PM »
Bit of a cheat really as this rebuild is done and dusted and the machine is in use. Completed November / December 2011. I was hunting around looking for a sturdy table saw and a substantial planer thicknesser. Everything that was solid enough was very silly money, and new modern ones were just too flimsy.

So resorting yet again to ebay I turned up this "Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker" which has everything I wanted, but was obviously in a very sorry state. I worked out that I could just about fit it on my Ifor Williams trailer legally as it was just over two tons and I can tow 2.5 ton (2.5 ton load, 1 ton trailer = 3.5 ton legal behind a Landrover) Bit of a drag as it was all the way over in Oxford, but we managed  :clap:

It was great fun loading and unloading  :ddb:
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 01:14:32 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2013, 12:33:35 PM »
The chap who had it had been buying in old oak beams, sawing and planing them, and selling them as oak floor boards. The HSE came down on him like a ton of bricks as the machine didn't meet modern safety standards. He could put the necessary guarding on quite cheaply, but the motors had to have 'DC Injection Brakes' fitted. Big motors, big price tag. About £600 each plus fitting. Net result the machine was pushed into the corner of a barn and left to rust away until muggins came on the scene.

A quick survey of the machine showed that although every movement was rusted solid, and the tables were atrocious, it was basically ok. The motors even checked out ok on a megger test after I'd kept them in a warm dry workshop for a couple of weeks.

A few missing levers and knobs, but the main issue was a broken safety cover casting for the pull over saw, and a missing left hand thread 1" whitworth nut for the table saw.

I managed to find this sales leaflet on the web
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 01:17:28 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2013, 12:46:34 PM »
The next breakthrough was to find someone who, having failed to sell his, which was in even worse condition was scrapping it. This time it was even further away in Cornwall, but I was able to identify the bits I wanted and get them couriered.

His machine had been in more recent use than mine so the tables weren't so bad, and he had my missing left hand thread spindle nut, the replacement for my cracked casting, and a few saw blades and planer blades. Definitely a result
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 12:50:09 PM »
Trying to trace the history of the design turned up all sorts of strange machines. It seems the concept originated in Canada in the late 1890's, and went through very many revisions and improvements. I think mine is probably just pre-war and dates from the late 1930's.

It turned out that back in the early 1970's Dominion in Halifax who were still in business, were buying the machines back, refurbishing them, and reselling them. Mine is one of the 1970's refurbishments - you can tell as there are guards on the otherwise exposed belts, and a metal scoop around the table saw blade for extraction of sawdust. Also the handle design has been 'modernised'.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 01:21:56 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 12:59:50 PM »
So what was the result? Well I was happy with the finished machine as I was able to put it to use almost imediately. If I had had the luxury of more time, I would have re-filled the castings as they originally were. But time was against me and it got painted in the 'as cast' state
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2013, 01:11:19 PM »
That series of photographs really ended too soon, as after they were taken I designed and built a 'DC Injection Brake' circuit for each of the motors.

DC Injection Braking, as it's name implies, is a way of stopping a motor much faster than it normally would by coasting to a stop. My aim was to have the spindles stopped within 3 seconds of the stop button being pressed. The planer and the table saw without braking would spin for several minutes !

So how is it implemented: In essence it is simple. Three phase power is removed from the motor, and DC from a separate source is 'injected' into one of the three phase windings. That simplicity is deceptive. For obvious reasons the circuitry must absolutely ensure that it is impossible to put both the three phase AC and the DC on at the same time.

My circuit monitors the three phase power to the motor, detects when it ceases, triggers a 'dead band' timer the end point of which fires a second timer controlling the DC injection via a contactor. The AC three phase and DC contactors are also interlinked so only one can be on at once. By varying the voltage of the DC source and by varying the time setting for the second timer the 'time to stop' can be adjusted. There is also an interlink to prevent the user trying to restart during the stopping time.

To keep things simple I created three separate DC supplies. It would be perfectly possible not only to share the supplies but generate the DC from a thyristor source off the mains. However I wanted to make a circuit that worked reliably without months of 'development' which I succeeded in doing.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Meldonmech

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 01:54:13 PM »
Hi
      What a brilliant machine, like a Rolls Royce and so compact, I would have really enjoyed restoring that machine and how rewarding that must have been. I have individual light trade machines and they take up more room than your universal. There is not much timber construction you cannot attempt with that sort of capacity. What  sort of things have you made?  You were lucky with the spares.

                                         Well Done   David

Offline dsquire

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2013, 01:56:28 PM »
Andrew


That is the type of machine I would have loved to have had. You can work them all day and they have the capacity to do so many things if properly fitted out. I can imagine how much enjoyment you get from rebuilding/restoring these machines and then being able to use them to trim out your house.  :clap: :clap:

Thanks so much for sharing this one with us. That is the beauty of MadModder, it doesn't have to be metal working machinery to fit in.  :D :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2013, 02:38:52 PM »
Hi
      What a brilliant machine, like a Rolls Royce and so compact, I would have really enjoyed restoring that machine and how rewarding that must have been. I have individual light trade machines and they take up more room than your universal. There is not much timber construction you cannot attempt with that sort of capacity. What  sort of things have you made?  You were lucky with the spares.

                                         Well Done   David

Thanks David.

The machine has been put to lots of use on structural timbers in the house re-built. Luckily it came with a tungsten carbide tipped rip saw as lots of the oak we pulled out has returned in a different form. Various beams have been re-sized. Rebates cut etc. One of it's most impressive tasks was a new pair of rustic beams in our drawing room. This room was formed from what was originally two rooms. The ceiling heights were different and one wall was not in line with the other forming a step. We managed to get a HUGE chunk of oak, complete with genuine woodworm holes,  from an old barn, and  split it down the middle so that the weathered / rustic sides were exposed and the new cuts to the wall. End result is you'd not know it wasn't original.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 10:33:15 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2013, 02:55:59 PM »
Andrew


That is the type of machine I would have loved to have had. You can work them all day and they have the capacity to do so many things if properly fitted out. I can imagine how much enjoyment you get from rebuilding/restoring these machines and then being able to use them to trim out your house.  :clap: :clap:

Thanks so much for sharing this one with us. That is the beauty of MadModder, it doesn't have to be metal working machinery to fit in.  :D :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don

Don yes there is something very satisfying using a machine that is up to the task. My woodwork shop is only ten foot wide, so it was a bit of a squeeze getting it in. Might need to build an extension, as I have a 24" re-saw sitting under a tarpaulin on the barn loading dock that is awaiting a rebuild then SOMEHOW squeezing into the already over filled woodwork shop. This shop has (mentally going round the wall) A DeWalt site saw on long tripod stand, a pillar drill, a  Union Graduate wood lathe, a disk sander, a massive Chain Morticer with hollow mortice as well, a separate Sedgewick hollow morticer, a Viceroy Sharpedge plane and chisel sharpener and of course the Dominion along with two floor mounted cupboards and three dust extractors! There IS no more room.
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2016, 07:49:59 AM »
(Reviving a very old post here, but it's the logical place to put the information)

I've been using this machine quite a bit recently, and decided that there were a few improvements I'd like to make to make use a little easier. When I re-built it, a few things got left off the list due to time, and not being able to source materials - mainly the various locking devices.

Most on the planer hold downs, fence, and rip saw guard were male 3/8" Whitworth square headed bolts. OK they work fine, but I find I'm everlastingly looking for the square hole spanner - I would have liked to replace them with 'Adjustable Clutch Levers' as I did on the planer in and outfeed table locks. Those were 1/2" Whitworth Female that I did find a source for but were very expensive.

Also the 'locking bar' for the cross cut saw had be badly bent at some time in the past and was beyond straightening so a new one was needed.

So then I had a flash of inspiration - Metric versions of these adjustable levers were available very cheaply both on eBay and from WDS - I got them from WDS as I suspect their quality is slightly better. So what was the flash of inspiration - make up a double ended stud - metric one end Whitworth the other, and Loctite the stud into a female metric lever converting it into a Whitworth Male - easy peasy  :ddb:
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 10:37:12 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2016, 07:54:18 AM »
Now one of the levers - the one that locks the vertical position of the planer guard - actually clashed with the thicknesser setting wheel so it wouldn't turn a full revolution. This got the same treatment.

I made up a mild steel replacement for the cross saw locking bar - decided to also give it an adjustable lever for completeness, and nickel plated it as things tend to rust in the unheated woodwork shop.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2016, 07:56:11 AM »
Then the final change was to improve the lighting by fitting a dedicated twin 6 foot fluorescent directly over the machine - what a change - can actually see what I'm doing now  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2016, 11:32:15 AM »
Like you don't like looking for the last place I left the spanner when making an adjustment. Nice solution, well executed .

Cheers
CB

Offline HarmanG

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2021, 04:03:02 PM »
Apologizes for bringing back an old thread but seems like the best place to Start.

A few months ago I picked up one of these exact machines 16" supreme Elliot woodworker, It was sitting in an old workshop in Limerick, Ireland and has now being mowed to my workshop also in Limerick. Was always in dry storage so nothing seized with rusty, but alot of bits need a clean and some oiling. I have refurbished an a Wadkin AGS 10 Table saw but this is on another scale again. However, from having a good look at it, it is a very simple machine just big and heavy.

Essentially I'm writing this to get in contact with yourself Andrew and hopefully learn something from your refurbishment of the same machine, there is little information online and the best info that i've come across is the sales leaflet you posted here back in 2013.

Hopefully I'll hear from you!

Thanks
Ger


Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2021, 04:12:26 PM »
Glad to be of help Ger.

Is there anything specific you need to know? I did that rebuild in an era before I got into the habit of taking lots of photos.

I pretty well totally dismantled it to strip and rebuild, but it had to be a fast job as I needed it for the house rebuild that I was doing at the time, so things were left 'war finish' in places rather than filled and fully fettled. It is a superb machine to use and although nowadays I don't use it often, I'd not part with it.

Good luck with yours.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline HarmanG

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2021, 04:36:08 PM »
Thanks for the very quick reply.

My main thing i'd love to know is there a manual for it? I see there is a manual for sale on Lathes.co.uk but it says in the description itself that its not very detailed and was worried about buying it to find out its just the sales leaflet you already posted.

Would you recommend a certain sequence to do the refurbishment, for some reason i'm focusing on stripping/refurbing the planer first, put that back together then moving onto the table saw, then cross cut. Little bit worried about taking it all apart and having a large (mostly mental) task of putting it back together.

Other thing then is you have a good description of the DC injection braking system but was wondering would you be able to share images of the DC braking system and how you fitted it into the machine.

Really appreciate the reply and any information you have.

Regards
Ger

Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2021, 02:32:06 AM »
Iíll have a dig around and see what I can find. I remember that the various delays were implemented by little PIC based boards made by a chap in Sevenoaks and advertised on eBay. I got him to slightly change the design of one of them.

I tried to find details about what I did a couple of years ago for someone and failed. It is just possible I put circuit diagrams in the housing box, Iíll take a screwdriver to it later !
Andrew Mawson
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2021, 04:59:22 AM »
Bingo !

As I suspected I've put documentation in the actual unit itself so I'm attaching pictures. If the resolution isn't enough drop me an email with an email address that will accept the photos as .jpgs of about 3MB each.

Good luck
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline HarmanG

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2021, 05:13:02 AM »
Thanks very much Andrew!, it is much appreciated, I will give them a study and if I'm unsure about anything il be back to you  :D 

The electrics are the last thing on my list, not my strong point so would like to be sure I've everything right before before investing in that. Realistically  its not something you want to be winging, so I'll look for someone to do it for me.

I will hopefully get a good few pictures of the refurb during and post them to help any other potential people. Of all my searches online, this thread was the most useful so would love to add to it.

Thanks
Ger

Offline HarmanG

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2021, 05:28:58 PM »
Andrew, I have one quick question (I hope itís quick). I have being dismantling the planer and itís given me a much better look at the centre of the whole machine. At the Base of the centre piece which the crosscut saw is mounted there seems to be some sort of gearbox (you can change it from fast, neutral , slow) also has a plug where you can put in oil. I cannot figure out what itís for. Do you have an idea?

Offline HarmanG

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2021, 05:31:50 PM »
 :doh:

 I say the second I hit post I figured itÖÖ.. Am I right in saying itís for the feed rollers of the planer?

Offline awemawson

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Re: Dominion Supreme Elliot Universal Woodworker
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2021, 02:50:13 AM »
Yes youíve sussed it!
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex