Author Topic: Thread dial indicator for lathes  (Read 17270 times)

Offline jcrous

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Thread dial indicator for lathes
« on: December 23, 2012, 11:47:13 AM »
I am the owner of a Quantum 210 X 400 mm Metric lathe.

The Leadscrew is 2.0 mm metric pith and I can cut a wide range of both metric and imperial threads.

The lathe is designed to cut an reverse, forward (cut) and reverse. There is no Thread dial.

I would like to make a thread dial, but I have now idea how it works. I am referring to the marks on the top of the dial and how many teeth the gear must have that  runs on the lead screw.

I have seen some thread dials with 4 marks and even one with 12 marks (numbered 1 - 12).

Where can I get the info how to make one or the theory behind it for me to work from.

I also see that the thread dial is normally situated on the right side of the saddle. My one has got 3 screws standing out on this place, but they are meant for the gib of the half nut. However I am sure I will be able to make use of them without having to influence the grip on the gib.

I will really appreciate any help.
Regards

Johan

Offline DICKEYBIRD

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2012, 12:00:20 PM »
If memory serves, most metric leadscrew lathes don't have thread dials since there's a basic mathematic difference between Imperial & metric.  Fairly easy to do in imperial, not so much with metric.  Hopefully someone will come along & shoot me down.

Metric lathe thread dials have extra gears (3?) & complexity, to work.

Probably easier just to use the "don't disengage the halfnuts" method IMHO.
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Offline Swarfing

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2012, 02:14:01 PM »
I have a 280 x 750 metric lathe and it has a thread dial attached in the usual place (bottom right of saddle). It comes into it' own when cutting any thread. I don't see why why you would not want one? mind you after this you will want a full set of change wheels for cutting mod, trap and imperial threads too  :bang:
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Offline Swarfing

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2012, 02:22:12 PM »
Have a look at this chaps site for some info...

http://andysmachines.weebly.com/roll-your-own-threading-dial.html


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Offline awemawson

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2012, 02:38:20 PM »
The one on my metric Colchester Master 2500 has a multitude of gears that can be selectively engaged on the thread indicator, though I confess I actually reverse out leaving the clasp nut engaged when threading
Andrew Mawson
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Offline andyf

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2012, 02:40:03 PM »
Swarfing, I'm this chap. Johan posed the same question on the ME forum, and below is a copy of the rely I posted there.

Andy

COPY:
Though your lathe will cut both metric and imperial threads, it has a metric leadscrew, so a threading dial will only work for metric threads.

I made a crude threading dial for an imperial lathe, shown here:
http://andysmachines.weebly.com/roll-your-own-threading-dial.html


As you will see, the leadscrew is used as a worm to drive a gear, which turns the dial. For imperial leadscrews, a single gear is all that is needed , with the same number of teeth as the threads per inch of the leadscrew, or a multiple of that TPI. Thus, for my 12 TPI leadscrew, I made a gear with 24 teeth. If that dial only had one mark, I could engage the half nuts each time that mark came round, because the leadscrew would have turned 24 times, moving my carriage 2” along. If it had two marks, I could make quicker progress by engaging each time either of those marks came round and the carriage had moved 1”, because imperial threads are all expressed as the number of threads in one inch.

Life is more difficult with metric threads. Unlike imperial ones, there is no conveniently small distance into which all metric pitches will fit. If you have a gear with 15 teeth and a single mark on it, the carriage will move 30mm for one full turn of the leadscrew. The 11 standard metric pitches you might want to cut are 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 0.8, 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2.0, 2.5 and 3mm. Only 0.5, 0.6, 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5 and 3mm pitches will divide exactly into 30mm. That leaves 0.7, 0.8 and 1.75 mm pitches; those will divide into 28mm, so a gear with 14 teeth will cover them (and would also cover 0.5, 0.8, 1.0 and 2mm pitches).

So, you will need both a 15T and a 14T gear if you want to cover all the 11 metric pitches mentioned earlier. The thread dial indicator could have interchangeable gears, or both gears could be permanently mounted on a single shaft which could be moved along to bring either of them into mesh with the leadscrew. Indeed, as the entire indicator will can be made so it can easily be attached to and removed from the apron (see my web page), it might be easiest to make two separate indicators, one with a 15T gear and the other with a 14T gear. Of course, you might decide that you could easily use dies to cut 0.7 and 0.8mm pitches, and that you wouldn't want to cut 1.75mm (as used on M12 coarse) very often, so your needs could be met with a single 15T gear.

As to the number of marks on the dial, two examples might help:

1. Imagine using a dial with a 15T gear to cut a 3.0mm pitch. The dial goes round once as the carriage moves 30mm, and 3.0 divides into 30. But it also divides into 15, so you could have two marks on the dial, and engage the half-nuts when either came round.

2. If you were cutting a 0.5mm pitch with your 15T dial, 30mm/0.5mm = 60, so you could put 60 marks round the dial and engage the half nuts on any of them.

But too many marks can be very confusing, and I have four around my dial. That means that for the finer threads, I may have to wait longer than necessasy for a mark to come round, but in reality little time is wasted.

Going back to my first remark, the reason you will not be able to use a dial to cut imperial threads is that none of their pitches will divide exactly into a conveniently small number of millimetres.

I hope this helps!

Andy.

Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Swarfing

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2012, 02:46:25 PM »
I like you site Andy  :thumbup:

I only cut metric threads myself and always use a single mark. But as you say the difference is if your using an imperial or metric leadscrew, mines total metric so no problem. Here is what the SB multi TDI looks like.

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=E...=US4218942&F=0


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Offline andyf

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2012, 04:06:54 PM »
The link doesn't work for me, Swarfing. Is the "..." in the middle of it causing a problem?

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Swarfing

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2012, 05:34:14 PM »
Once in hole stop digging.

Offline Swarfing

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2012, 05:43:05 PM »
Once in hole stop digging.

Offline andyf

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2012, 07:46:12 PM »
Yes, I see it now, and have heard of it before. I may have it wrong, but it looks as though it's a small version of the screwcutting gearbox, working in reverse.

A bit beyond my meagre talents, and for my little lathe it would need watchmaking skills!

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Swarfing

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2012, 03:14:44 AM »
The mastiff one looks automatic but in fact you just unscrew the knurled nut and exchange the wheels. If you have a metric lathe with a single wheel in most cases it will be a MOD pitch. By measuring the diameter and counting the team you will be able to work out what he other wheels should be by looking at the charts from many of the suppliers. Chris with all his new form cutters should be able to knock them out for everyone :D
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Offline Swarfing

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2012, 03:19:03 AM »
Just thought because this is not a precision piece of the lathe any cutter would do(cut deep enough and keep an equal number of teeth) as all you want is it to do is turn against the leadscrew thread. I may upgrade mine now had a  chance to think about it????
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Offline andyf

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2012, 04:43:49 AM »
Swarfing, if your lathe has no threading dial and you do a fair bit of threading, it's well worth making one. My pinion, crudely gouged out of PVC with a threading tool mounted on its side, has been in action for 3 or 4 years now, though I do disengage it when not needed to save unnecessary wear. As you say, no great precision is needed, and the torque involved in rotating the dial is negligible. If your leadscrew is metric and is other than 2mm pitch, you will need to work out what pinions you will need to cover your desired range of metric threads. For example, mini-lathes with 1.5mm leadscrews need 14T, 15T and 16T for full coverage.

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Swarfing

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2012, 04:53:18 AM »
Andy i do have a TDI?
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Offline andyf

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2012, 05:31:51 AM »
Andy i do have a TDI?

Is that a question?  :)

If you already have a TDI, why does it need upgrading?

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Swarfing

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2012, 05:40:25 AM »
It don't really just giving options for the owner of this thread  :D

Thing is more gadgets to make mean more options you have :ddb:
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Offline NeoTech

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Re: Thread dial indicator for lathes
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2012, 07:10:13 AM »
If you own a quantum lathe its most likely compatible with is equal size from Optimum, they are usually sold in europe from the same dealers, and are more or less a quality difference only on them, same machines though. I have Optimum with a chase dial on it. Only thing with metric threads if u wanna do it easy way.. always... always start on 1.. or a "whole" number.. but always the same number.. cause the calculations of a chase dial can be annoying as hell on metric. If ur like me even more lazy.. just put it in reverse..back off the tool and reverse it. Cant say im the king of threading though broke my fair share of tools threading materials that werent supposed to be threaded even.
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/