Author Topic: winfield lathe mk3  (Read 7949 times)

Offline t20

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winfield lathe mk3
« on: September 07, 2012, 02:49:51 PM »
Hi I have brought a winfield mk3 lathe but it needs a bit of fetling to get up and running, would anyone know where the best place to go for a manual or rebuild info do,s and dont's.

Thanks in advance Mike


Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: winfield lathe mk3
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 03:48:24 PM »
There isn't a manual- or ever was. The only source of some information is 'lathes co uk' but as to a proper overhaul you would be better to find someone with copies of David Lammas's write up on the early Myfords in Model Engineer in the Winter of 1988. Over the years, there was so much criticism of my own write ups on lathe overhaul etc that I said 'Bollocks' and put the whole caboodle in the shredder.  :hammer:
Having said that, I recall overhauling a Zyto and a friend's ML2 and these are similar very basic machines. As for accessories, you could- with luck- start to wade through the Martin Cleeve articles in Model Engineer dating from about 1953. And yes, the swing tool thingy is there- despite writers who seem to have serious lapses in memory :doh:

So basically, you will find the Winfield that bit more flimsy than quite a few more recent models but I inherited a Zyto which made lots of Gauge1 stuff prior to me getting it.

I therefore hope that you will pursue the leads given here.

Offline t20

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Re: winfield lathe mk3
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 07:09:23 PM »
thanks Fergus Omore

I appreciate your input and knowledge on the manual and will try to find a copy of  David Lammas's write up on the early Myfords in Model Engineer

what's a swing tool thing?

thanks Mike

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: winfield lathe mk3
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 03:10:39 AM »
Hi Mike- initially-----------------------Thanks :wave:

The swing tool 'thingy' is a sort of comment but it really relates to a tool holder which Martin Cleeve took out a provisional patent. Contrary to present opinion it was not merely an aid to screwcutting but had all sorts of advantages in boring and turning as well as the present limited discussion which is being propounded here on other posts :coffee:

So back to David Lammas, he not only scraped an old Myford but added feed screws and dials( which you lathe is short of).  Cleeve( as mentioned) did very much the same but extended his efforts to making useful accessories such as a screwcutting gear box, steadies, dividing gear, gears and a host of other things. The benefit was that they were all made from chunks of mild steel :lol:

If you are not in a club which has a library of Model Engineer magazines, I would suggest that you approach your local library and borrow volumes starting at say 113- and work your way through.

Suffice to say that I did :drool:

Cleeve was somewhat 'skint' but bought a 4 jaw independent chuck and modified the faceplate on several lathes to hold work in tee slots. No, I doubt that most here will wonder what I am going on about but it was sufficient that Cleeve survived losing his job and used his lathe to make a decent living-------------------making special screws.

So- in that old fashioned way- 'I greet you well'.

Norman Atkinson

Offline Miner

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Re: winfield lathe mk3
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 01:18:43 PM »
Mike,
Norman is quite correct. Right now, good solid information should be your top priority. In fact I wouldn't touch that lathe for at least a couple of weeks or months till you've done a lot of research. Without that you could easily do permanent damage. Rebuild? Yes that can be done, and I highly recommend it, IF your willing to do what that rebuilt term actually means. There's far more to it than a lot think. Your first stop should be over at www.practicalmachinist.com scroll down to the South Bend lathes forum, no that's not your brand of lathe, but you'll find more than enough information from past posts about lathe rebuilding if you do some diligent searching. You won't be able to post any questions about your lathe since that forum is about South Bend lathes and only those lathes.

You will need to be very careful while taking your new purchase apart, take lots of pictures and lay the parts out in logical order, only work on one part at a time. Parts like bearing caps have to go back in the exact same position they came from. Even properly ground screw drivers are required that fit the screw heads completely are necessary to prevent breaking the heads off or tearing up the heads. Mangled screw heads are a sure sign of a heavy handed incompetent who should know better. Improper use of abrasives on the wrong areas can and will permanently damage your machine. THAT'S NOT HOW IT'S DONE. With the work done correctly, you can have a rebuilt lathe that's as good as the day it left the factory or even better. Do it wrong? It won't be fit to make a good boat anchor. Most likely it's going to require a professional shop that is well qualified and has the right equipment to regrind the bed, slides, and refit them. It's not exactly cheap, but that is part of doing an actual rebuild if it's worn enough. Cleaning it up and throwing a fresh coat of paint on it is not, and never will be a rebuild. You should do the work with the thought that it's not going to be fast, easy, or all that cheap. Your lathe was built well enough that it should get the respect it deserves and not butchered like a dead pig. Getting that lathe apart and cleaned up so a proper assessment can be made for exactly what's needed is only the first step. That's when you take detailed pictures and post them here.

Do's & dont's? That could easily end up making this 10 pages long. The question is a little too broad to answer properly. You really need to do a lot of reading on past posts on every forum you can think of, and then come back with specific questions for what you don't quite understand.

One of the reasons both Norman and I along with some others will recommend those older books written by the English greats, is that they are written with the hobbyist in mind, and all the information is in them that you'll ever need. But YOU have to be willing to put the time, dedication, and spend some money to educate yourself. There isn't any short cuts to this. Forums like this are good, But you'll rarely get the complete hard detailed information you'll need to fully understand the subject. A good selection of reference books are just another part of the tools you need to operate any machine tool at the hobby level. And sometimes their even more important than the tools themselves.

There seems to be a strange reluctance by far too many to put some time, effort, and money towards that self education. Yet every dime spent towards that education will be repaid many times over for the rest of your life. Machining as a hobby requires a certain minimum level of knowledge to even be able to ask the correct questions, at that point and with a little time, you can then start to logically figure things out on your own.

 :) About now your probably wondering what you've gotten yourself into, at the beginning it seems like a huge task ahead of you. It does get a lot easier later. The rewards are well worth the effort.

Pete

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: winfield lathe mk3
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 03:48:06 PM »
There are many who will not like what I'm going to post but first thing is to examine the lathe to see just how badly it's worm or survived time.
Remember it probably had one careful owner but the other 50 probably weren't so careful.

If it's showing signs or wear that mean a lot of time or money being spent then bundle it up and pass it on to someone who isn't as worried or just wants it to sit there doing nothing, probably like the previous 41 owners.

I say this because the Winfield was never a high quality lathe when it was built.
The owners were always one step away from going bankrupt which they did do twice and it was more important to get machines out the door than spend time on them. They were built local to me in tiny premises with less than perfect machinery.
I never personally knew them but one of my neighbours, recalls seeing them putting the spindle threads on with a diebox and not screwcut.

It's simple things that could have been better that spoilt a lot of early lathes like not having an idler gear in the apron handwheel train so the carriage goes the wrong way.

It takes as much work to restore something decent as a clunker and I'd hate to see someone spending loads of time and cash on a machine that truthfully isn't worth it.
John Stevenson

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: winfield lathe mk3
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 05:06:29 PM »
I actually did a 'backtrack' on earlier posts and right or wrong, framed my reply from that.
 If an AK47 can be built in a scrap 3rd World workshop with very crude tooling, our poster can- with a couple of years at college- build an air rifle with a Granville lathe.

I recall that - and I am old enough to recall Uncle Joe Kenyatta and Mau Mau that very dangerous and deadly weapons wre constructed with bits of bath taps as bolts.

Earlier still, the Mark 1 Sten was made with one machined part for all of 7/6 or a dollar and a half. The spring was a bed spring and it would accept ammo from both sides.

I'd done my homework very carefully as one does if one is virtually deaf from firing off  relegated ammo in Mk1 Stens.

Offline Miner

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Re: winfield lathe mk3
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2012, 07:43:37 PM »
Actually I'm very glad John added far more than I knew about these lathes. And I would always take his advice well before mine. He is far more knowledgable than I'll ever be. Given what the lathe is, or how it was built? You may be money ahead to go with his points of view. A good cleaning would increase the percieved value for resale, so either way, getting it cleaned up and properly oiled will be worth it.

Pete

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: winfield lathe mk3
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2012, 07:18:08 AM »
It's all very relative! The guy who had my little and equally filmsy Zyto had a Degree in Engineering and went on to a doctorate in medicine-- and had a air rifle :lol: went on to write very technical articles on Gauge 1 boiler heating in Model Engineering :smart:

I sort of beat old Clifford by retiring at 53 (Same age as the poster) and look forward to being retired longer than I worked( or so my son informs me).

Still waiting for another air rifle-- but you can't win 'em all :lol: