Does CCMW-3 HSS insert fit into a tool holder for CCMT09?

[PekkaNF]

Hello,

I see HSS inserts for these american tool holders
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3569&category=1208242246

I see inserts refered as "CCMW-3-2.5-.5, CCMW-3-2.5-1, and CCMW-3-2.5-2"

I have quite a few tools for european CCMT 06 and 09 inserts.
http://www.lamina-tech.ch/eng/catalog/family/ccmt

I'm wondering if I could buy some tool holders and inserts form LMS and use them with my tool holders?

If I convert their 3574 Insert, CCMW-3-2.5-1 High Speed Steel
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3574
size to metric it looks like a close fit for CCMT 09 insert

So with a little bet "guessing" it looks like ISO/ASA/LMS HSS could be translated like?
CCMT 06 / CCMT 2(1.5) /  CCMW-2-1.5-x
CCMT 09 / CCMT 3(2.5) / CCMW-3-2.5-x

I found this document (I have few boxes of Lamina inserts):
http://www.lamina-tech.ch/img/catalog/455.pdf
Which I think it conforms my hopes.

So, could I use these american toolholders (designed for CCMW-3-2.5-x) with european CCMT 09T304  carbide inserts AND could I use these american CCMW-3-2.5-x HSS inserts with my Maier toolhoders designed for CCMT 09 inserts?

Screws are probably best not mixed, but do I have any other complications? I just could buy one set and few inserts, but if these inserts works with my tool holders, I'd like to avoid buying duplicate set of tool holders with their dedicated screws and such.

Thanks,
Pekka

[PTsideshow]

Can't answer your question directly since I have tool holders for TMNG inserts and they all seem to fit. But here is a website that may be of some help since it gives the sizes in metric.
gobal tooling the page that comes up is the ones that people on a wood turning site were using as replacements for $15.00 brand name ones.
here aere technical resource charts they may help.
As I pointed out in my post on the plastool holders the company grinds the heads to a smaller dia, so the look nicer. And my boring bar insert screw is just a standard metric screw. Not a fancy screw that the description stated, and sold the replacements for $1.58 each instead of .25¢
 

[rowbare]

Your calculations seem right.

Metric and Ansi inserts are for the most part interchangeable though it can be a bit puzzling at times. Here is a link to a chart that you can use to figure it out: http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm. If you already have holders you shouldn't have any problems finding inserts to fit them.

I went to their resources page: http://www.carbidedepot.com/resources.htm and found an Ansi to ISO conversion page: http://www.carbidedepot.com/ansi-iso.asp. Unfortunately there is no ISO to ANSI page but you can test your guesses.

Btw those Warner HSS inserts work really well. I bought some 21.51 inserts for my Glanze SCLCR holders (these specify an 0602 insert) and I am quite happy with them.

bob

[PekkaNF]

Thank you. THANK YOU! Thank you.

Rowbare, Do you mean these inserts CCMW-2-1.5-1
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3696
And they work great? How do you sharpen them? Any advice about r?

Anyway I have very nice German boring bar set for CCMT 06 (trough cooled, nice to spray coolant or air trough it), some other boring tools and one little LH turning tool. Being so small very sharp HSS inserts might be a good idea sometimes.

This brings me to another consideration: There seems to be a yet another variant of this same geometry for drilling: CEMW-2-1.5-1
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3693&category=1208242246
Never had that configuration on carbide insert. Seems to have 20 decree clearance and top is flat. Is this clearance just to clear smaller bore hole or is there something else I should know to make educated choice when I'm choosing CCMW-2-1.5-1 or CEMW-2-1.5-1 for CCMT06 boring bars?
http://www.maier-tools.com/index.php?download_id=122&name=Dreher%20-%2005-10.pdf
page 4, second from bottom (SET M-A-SCLCR 06)

I Have no problem getting standard inserts for my standard turning/boring tools, but I'd like to try HSS inserts too and they are not that common and for standard CCMT/such almost as commons as hens teeth.

This set
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3569&category=1208242246
appeals to me because those tool holders are probably nice and there is one form I don't have (Described better than I can put):
Left hand bar has 0.5" shank and is 4" long. It includes a second insert pocket that provides a 50° side cutting edge. The second insert pocket on the left hand tool provides a way to use the second and fourth corners on the diamond insert.
Now, I should be able to put some corners of used inserts to agricultular work and plow those pesky mysterymetals that haunt my prettier inserts.

This set plus a box of CCMW-3-2.5-1 probably should last a long time?

Thanks for input,
Pekka

[rowbare]

Yes those are the ones I bought, CCMW 2-1.5-1. They have worked really well even though I have abused them at times. The only issues I have had were self induced i.e. turning 1.5" O1 at 550 rpm. The chips were a nice blue but that is a bit much for HSS...

I have only sharpened one insert so far. I simply rubbed it against a diamond file and it seemed to rejuvenate it. I have a couple that are due for sharpening so they might get a lick on a surface grinder if I can figure out how to hold them there.

I also bought a few each of the CEMWs and CPMWs. The CEMW as you noted has a 20 degree relief and the CPMW an 11 degree relief. I was thinking the CPMW might be really good in aluminum but I haven't had a chance to try it yet. Frankly I am not sure what I will use the CEMW for but, as you mention, with the big relief angle it might be a really good insert for boring. It would probably do a great job on plastics as well.

That pair of holders looks really nice. I like the idea of being able to use the otherwise wasted edges of the insert. I might have to put that on my list for the next time I order. Once I get the speed issues on my lathe sorted out, the bigger insert might come in handy as well.

I think the CCMW are definitely the go-to insert but since you are paying for the shipping anyway, I suggest getting a few CEMW and CPMWs as well.

This fellow's blog is pretty good. Here is a post that links to a you tube review of the inserts: http://www.machinistblog.com/hss-indexable-inserts/

bob

[PekkaNF]

OK. Ordered bunch of HSS inserts and shanks. One 3/8" Warner set equivalent for CCMT06 size inserts and some 06/09 size HSS inserts. Worth of a little more than 200 USD + pp.

Haven't got it yet, but I'm not in great hurry, I'll be testing them fullest next winter.

My big idea was:

* My workplace is a garage, that is build in to my house - I don't want to do any "hot work" there. Specially in the winter is nicer to have tools that don't need grinding. I'll do all grinding outside of the house/garage.

* I'm somewhat familiar with one brand/grade carbide inserts. They have benefits as well some compromises. I'll see if these HSS inserts will complement them.

It looks like I will need different set of insert holders for these HSS-inserts, even tought they seem to fit standard metric pocket. Due to insert geometry (judged only on data/pictures - I haven't got HSS-inserts yet) they might be ok for brass, not much else on standard carbide insert holder. To verify this I have to see/test the HSS inserts and holders, but that is my impression. But it is not too bad, in real life I need very limited amount of holders and I don't want to be changing inserts from one grade to another grade too often.

If this approach fails me, then I have to start invetigating a minimal grinder to sharpen HSS old fashion way, but that grinder must have shroud/suction to kill sparks.

So, I would not call this progress - yet.
Pekka