Gallery, Projects and General > Project Logs
Lister 6/1 Genset
bogstandard:
Darren,
Lovely find, enjoy the rebuild.
My nephew used to restore old engines like that, ended up with about 20 of them, all different makes and models. Did the rounds at the steam rallies.
If ever one of the flywheels falls off, don't throw it away, I can make lots of little engines out of it. :dremel: Mind you, with it being a 'modern' engine, it just might be made of cast steel.
John
Darren:
I believe they are cast iron John as they can crack if you hit them too hard trying to get them off.
All the same, keep ya beady eyes off em :lol:
What a diff from the glorious sunshine of yesterday to the bitter snap of today. We've got several inches of snow outside and the roads are blocked here. (too many hills to drive in snow)
So not a lot done. But playing last night I can report that the engine is not seized, turns very freely and has compression. The bore looks good as well, no scores anyway.
A few things were stuck fast. namely the rocker cover hand nut, the compression changer screw, the valve lifter solenoid and linkages and the fuel pump linkages.
A good soak in penetration oil overnight and all is now free except the fuel pump linkage. Actually I'm not sure if this is seized as I don't really now how it works, it might be OK.
After many hours scouring the net for info I'm still at a loss....oh well, I'll prob have to take it off and strip it down to see how it works.
If I can figure the fuel pump it'll most likely run once I can supply some fuel to it.
No pic's, it's too cold and bitter outside to go and take any !!
Darren
Darren:
It seems one of the most difficult tasks with the Lister CS is removing the flywheel gib keys. They can become pretty stuck over time.
Inspired by this commercial gismo I decided to make my own. They state 10mm thick steel so I followed suit.
Starting with a piece of scrap it was cut into a basic shape using the bandsaw and chopsaw.
Setting it up in the four jaw chuck using my improvised center/punch.
Biggest drill I have 13mm
Then bored to size. The crankshaft is 2" and the gib protrudes 200 thou or 0.2" so I bored to 2.2"
Reversed the chucks jaws and turned the outer edge to just under 4" and marked the approx center
Marked and punched ready to drill and tap three holes for a 10mm thread.
This gib key has a head in order to help with removal.....that's a joke in itself. We need to get our puller over this so a slot needs milling to facilitate this.
The work/puller now being round and difficult to hold in a vice I held it down with a single bolt and flat bar. The plywood is sacrificial to allow machine just beyond the full thickness of the puller body.
That's all done now and ready to go. Install some 10mm bolts and fit over crankshaft
Turn puller into position
Tighten bolts and bend puller. Yep, that's right, it bent like butter. The Gib key didn't even break a sweat....!!
Oh dear, that didn't work, :bugeye:
What to do next?
Make a stronger puller, thicker, much thicker??
Maybe with this, not sure what it is, it's not rolled looks sorta cast to me. I know it's heavy I can barely carry it. Might be a tad to big for my lathe though.
Question for the board, would cast iron be suitable for use as a puller? If it is cast iron. I'd hate to cut this up unnecessarily.
Edit: 20/02/09
I have received a complaint for this posting from the manufactures from whom I sourced this idea.
There was never any intention on my part to upset anyone or discredit any commercial products.
I loosely based my efforts around their puller design and made it from 10mm as stated on their web page. Mine failed by bending under pressure.
BUT...I am talking about my efforts, nobody elses.
Since my posting they have now updated their website to indicate that they have increased their tool material to 13mm thickness, and then again to a current size of 18mm. This would indicate they were having the same results as I.
However, with a stock material of 18mm I would have no reason from my own personal experience to doubt that this would now be more than man enough to tackle the task in hand.
If you read my further posts down the page you will see that I came up with a slightly different solution. It's just one way to tackle the job, these engines have been around for many decades and no doubt there are many ways to skin a cat.
If anyone has been offended as a result of these posting I do sincerely apologise, it was never intended.
Best wishes
Darren
rleete:
Probably not. Cast will crack. Maybe double up the thickness (2 rings) to help avoid the bending?
Make what you did before, but put two bolts on either side of the key. You don't need them evenly spaced, just two right on either side of the point you're pulling.
If you have access to one, use a pulley puller over the ring. Put one jaw of the puller right behind the key. Tighten, then tap the end with a hammer. Rinse and repeat.
Edit: after looking again, I'd make a ring slightly larger (once again, 2 thichness for strength?), and put two bolts in. One goes right over the key (like it shows in the first pic), so it's putting pressure right on the key. Another 180 degrees from that, to keep the ring square to the shaft. After tightening a bit, tap the key with a small hammer. Tap, don't bash it! You're trying to induce vibration to break the bond, not whack it out of shape. Tighten some more, tap. Slowly work it out. Once it starts to give, it should slide right out.
bogstandard:
Darren,
Rleete got in a few seconds before me, but I am not going to modify the post, some bits are just repeated.
Very much doubt if the cast iron would hold, it can take compression but not distortion. It will just snap.
The normal method for removal of tapered keys is a pair of wedges wacked home behind the key head :hammer:
You might be able to use a small bar with a tapped hole either side of the head and use that to jack it out. Your method left too much material between the bolt holes, so it bent.
That sometimes doesn't work, so what you have to do is drill down the centre bit of the key, to allow it to collapse slightly and try again with the extraction process. Maybe you could try drilling before wacking in the tapers. If you have already broken the head off, you can tap the hole out and use a long bolt and a large heavy block with a hole thru it as a slide hammer.
They can sometimes be a real ba**ard to get out if they have been in there any length of time, and you just have to do the best you can at times, without damaging the surrounding area. Sometimes you can free them off by knocking the flywheel further onto the shaft, but you have to be very careful you don't damage the flywheel, otherwise I will have enough material for little engines for many years.
Tapered keys are classed as sacrificial, and you just cut and file up a new one when you are ready to assemble. The dimensions can be found from this chart
http://www.ecs.umass.edu/mie/labs/mda/dlib/mech_comp/keys/taper_key.html
John
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