Author Topic: pDrive CX Single - will this inverter run my 3 phase motor? (Read 33115 times)

raynerd · « **on:** January 04, 2012, 02:11:13 PM »

Hello all
I know advice on electrics isn`t always forthcoming over the internet

but I was hoping that some of you more electrically savvy chaps could put my mind at easy (of not having to fork out another £100 on an inverter!) by telling me if this inverter I`ve been given will run my 1/3 Hp three phase motor.

The inverter, and I presume it is an inverter, is labeled:

pDrive - CX single - VA TECH - www.pdrive.cc

The silver foiled information reads:
Type: >pDrive< CS single 0,4
INPUT: 50/60Hz 200-240v 1ph - 5.8A
OUTPUT: 1-360Hz 200-240V 3ph - 2.6A
Rated Motor: 0.4W
NE17216 S

I very much presume that i`ll do the trick since it is clearly stating that it is a 1ph to 3ph converter with a power output of 0.4W which is 0.5hp, plenty for my 1/3hp motor.

That being said, I`m not 100% sure and I`ve never seen this type of controller before. It looks like it has a speed control nob on the front of some sort! Also, I`ve not dared remove the cover off the back but who ever removed it cut the wires. It looks like the single phase input takes up two of the 6 connector blocks (live and neural) but then that only leaves 4 inputs. I`m sure my other inverter has 6 inputs for the 6 wire 3 phase motor.

http://www.global-download.schneider-electric.com/852575A6007E5FD3/All/08A715CAD209060485257714005C1B5D/$File/h506921_0.pdf

http://www.global-download.schneider-electric.com/852575A6007E5FD3/All/79140E342AAE027F85257714005C1206/$File/h506907_0.pdf

Any thoughts, information or warnings

welcome

Swarfing · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:38:01 PM »

Chris

have a look here first

https://www.inverterdrive.com/group/AC-Inverter-Drives-230V/default.aspx

Swarfing · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:39:31 PM »

Also you only need a .25kw inverter

take a look at the vector drive model there

philf · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:54:03 PM »

Hi Chris,

Happy New Year.

If you've got 6 wires coming out of your motor you need to find which are the start and finish for each phase. You'll need to connect the three phases in series and then connect each of the three joints to the three outputs. (The start and finish aren't important as long as you identify both ends of each winding.)

I'm sure that it will more than do the job.

Cheers.

Phil.

HS93 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2012, 03:19:37 PM »

just out of interest what is the 1/3 hp motor like I am after a small motor for a project I have a spare inverter I bought for the lath.
or does anyone know where I can get a small in psical size 1/4 or 1/3 hp motor.

Peter

Swarfing · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2012, 03:28:52 PM »

It will need to be wired delta

raynerd · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2012, 06:38:44 PM »

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I have had some success in that I`ve wired it all up and the motor does turn

BUT I`m getting quite a high pitch squeeling noise from the motor and it will go to a max of about 70-80 rpm and that seems to be top speed. That being said, I`ve only ran it a couple of times for fear of damaging the motor.

I clearly need to set some of the parameters but it feels like the manual and selection menu on the controller works in a different language!

I`ll figure out how to work the menu I`m sure, but if anyone has any advice on the actual parameters and settings I`ll need to actually select then please shout out. The nice thing about buying them off Gavin is that mine had been setup by him! If I can get it working then I`ll be pretty pleased with it. It is a nice little unit with a speed control pot on the unit itself. There is room for a control board but I wouldn`t have a clue how to connect one!!

Any more help on setting up the inverter would be welcome. The manual is linked to in my first post.
Chris

John Rudd · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2012, 03:45:10 AM »

Chris,

you need to access the menu to see what the settings are....If the motor is squeeling then potentially the frequency may be set too high....My vfd is set to a max of 75 hz....

Also if the vfd is naything like mine they are suited to dual voltage motors....i.e when the windings are connected in Delta the windings see 220v rather than the usual 415volts from a proper 3ph supply

raynerd · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:36:09 AM »

Hi John

The first job tonight is to set the maximum frequency as I was told to do this by Swarfing last night but was struggling. I`ve been studying the manual today and so I`ll give that a go tonight.

The problem is...where do I get all the other data from?

I know in my menu I can set:

Maximum Frequency
P, I and D Gains
accel and d`accel ramps
Feedback destination

How do I know what I need to set these to?

Chris

David Jupp · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2012, 11:20:33 AM »

Leave the PID controller disabled - at least initially (can't imagine youy'll need that functionality). Then you can ignore P I & D.

Also you won't use the Feedback of not using PID - that's one less thing to worry about.

Ramp rates - probably not critcal on such a small motor, start off with something arbitrary. A slow ramp will give 'soft start' (can help limit mechanicl shock and start up surge on larger drives).

If just being used as a way to drive a 3 phase motor, and perhaps give som basic speed variation you don't really need the more exotic functions.

raynerd · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2012, 03:54:25 PM »

Cheers for the advice David, i`ve just reset to factory EU settings and starting from scratch. Can you tell me what I should set for:

base frequency
maximum frequency
output frequency

I`m still getting the high pitch squeel!

Chris

raynerd · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:16:45 PM »

This is driving me bonkers - max frequency and base frequency both set to 50hz yet with the motor running and displaying the frequency it is showing only 15hz with a top speed (still deathly slow) a max of 16Hz !!

melgump · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:37:03 PM »

I shall now show my ignorance on such matters by asking how an inverter rated to a 0,4w motor is expected to be able to run a motor of 1/3 hp? In my book that is approx. 250w. Just asking!
Cheers,Ray.

David Jupp · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2012, 05:14:21 PM »

Couple of thoughts - haven't had time to study the manual....

Base Frequency could be related to the 'clock frequency' of the microporcessor (in the kHz range) - you can sometimes chage this to avoid resonances . So it might not be anything to do directly with Output Frequency.

Do you have Jog mode enabled without realising? - check details of the control/digital inputs. If in jog mode the drive will run very slow (and may not allow any/much variation).

Exact details vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and between model ranges - it really is a question of ploughing through the manual. Unfortunately they tend to assume a degree of familarity with control circuitry and/or PLCs.

Swarfing · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2012, 05:38:49 PM »

Chris

Set the base frequency to 50hz (mains voltage), set the max to 75 and if that is too slow add a few more hz at a time to max until you start getting to somewhere near your speed requirements. you can go between 100% and 130% of intended motor speed with an inverter. be careful though and don't be greedy.

buffalow bill · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2012, 05:59:30 PM »

Chris,
The problem may not be the inverter, but could be the motor. May be worth checking.

With the motor running slow one of the winding may be the wrong way round. If incorrect two winding are giving a CW rotation and one will be giving an ACW rotation.
Motor windings ends are usually indicated (ie A & B) what ever the indication are then the A’s all connect to B’s. The order that they connect in does not matter that will only alter the rotation.

L1 L2 L3
A1 to B3 A2 to B1 A3 to B 2

L is line conductor = supply from inverter
A & B winding ends

Hope I am not confusing you.
Bill

raynerd · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:23:19 PM »

Grrr.... thanks for more of the messages and suggestions!

I pulled the Jaguar Inverter off my Boxford Lathe and hooked that up to the motor and it runs fine so I rule the motor out as the issue. Likewise I have reverted back to the new pDrive inverter and changed the connections around going into the inverter. The motor as expected goes in the other direction but I still get the slow speed and high pitch squeel from the motor.

I have set the base to 50hz and max freq to 75hz as instructed by Swarfing.

There is a jog mode but the manual (which seems to presume the user is an expert!) tells me that it has to be in "off" mode. I`m clearly in run mode and so I`m convinced the issue isn`t to do with jogging.

There is a clear issue here with the frequency. Despite setting the frequency basic settings as stated, when I run the motor and set the display to show me the frequency, I`m only running at 16Hz and although I have the front panels controls selected as my input, the pot is doing near to nothing to the speed. It will slow it down!!! (it is going slow enough!!) but it won`t speed it up above 16-17Hz. The max is 100% set to 75Hz.

My next step is to hook the Boxford motor up to the new inverter but if anyone has any more suggestions...the more the better as I`m slowly loosing faith that this is going to work!

Chris

Swarfing · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:29:55 PM »

Chris is anything set for F02 and F03?

raynerd · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:35:00 PM »

"10" for both ???

Chris

EDIT: just looked it up, ramp values and 10s is default.

Swarfing · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:42:38 PM »

ok maybe a thought now? are we sure it a three phase motor and not a 2 pole with cap start = 6 wires?

raynerd · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:45:38 PM »

Now my head is totally mush! The inverter works fine on my Brook Crompton motor on my lathe. It does cause some squeeling at low frequency but these speeds would rarely be useful, bump it up to 20Hz+ and the squeeling goes and the motor flys!

Sounds like I have a winner, Jaguar on the miller and pDrive on the lathe but unfortunately the lathe is in such a position that I`d need a controller box and wouldn`t have a clue how to wire one up to the new pDrive and besides, I guess it is under power and my approx 2/3hp Crompton lathe motor would be lost on this smaller inverter. Likewise, the Jaguar will be overpower for the small 1/3hp motor but I guess I could set limits as to not damage the motor.

Why the heck wouldn`t the inverter be running the small Seimens motor?

Chris

EDIT: Swarfing, we posted at the same time. It is 100% a 3ph motor but I have no clue why the pDrive won`t run it.

Swarfing · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:47:41 PM »

Try base at 60 then it maybe happier as it thinks it is state side. it could be a duel frequency motor?

raynerd · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:50:07 PM »

Thanks for the replies Swarfing and all others....I`ll give that a bash tomorrow. I think bed is calling before I get tired and

I`ll keep you updated and if anyone has more thoughts, post and I`ll be sure to give them a go!

Swarfing · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:52:00 PM »

Perceiver a few of us have been here before i can assure you. If it is duel motor then you should be able to get hire speeds out f it

David Jupp · « **Reply #24 on:** January 06, 2012, 03:11:38 AM »

b32 found under General Functions sounds like it might just explain the issue.

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Author Topic: pDrive CX Single - will this inverter run my 3 phase motor? (Read 33115 times)