Author Topic: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?  (Read 10349 times)

Offline Chazz

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Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« on: July 19, 2011, 11:17:36 AM »
Greetings, what do you folks use to lube the vertical column of your Milling Machines, Way Oil?  If so, what weight? or if grease, what type? 

Thanks
Chazz
Craftex CT129N Mill & Craftex 9 x 20 CT039 Lathe

Offline DaveH

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 11:30:51 AM »
Chazz,

CNC mill, manual mill, round or dove tail column?

I think it may make a difference on the mill :)

 :beer:
DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline Chazz

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 03:06:19 PM »
It's a manual Crafterx CT129N Mill Drill, with dove tail  column.

Thanks,
Chazz
Craftex CT129N Mill & Craftex 9 x 20 CT039 Lathe

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 04:45:39 PM »
Hi
I use 10/40 semi synthetic engine oil for all my machines
Never had any problems at all (we get 200 litre drums at work)
It works well in my one shot oiler on my 626 mill
If you want something thinner hydraulic oil is nice and cheep
John

Offline kwackers

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2011, 04:26:12 AM »
I've got quite a lot of Myford branded oil which I use on all my machines.

I prefer oil over grease since it 'washes', grease stays in place and over time turns into grinding paste. Every now and again I like to really soak all the ways with oil and wipe them down clean them.

I did notice when I first got my milling machine the previous owner had clogged a lot of the lubrication lines by trying to force grease in them and as a result a lot of things were dry...

Offline Pete.

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2011, 01:33:59 PM »
I never use grease for any slideway. It turns into cutting paste.

I used engine oil until I got hold of 2 litres of way oil which I am now half way through. The engine oil did a pretty good job but the way oil is far and away better, much smoother operation.

Offline Jonny

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2011, 02:00:07 PM »
Any form of oil has to be better than grease, as above it traps unwanted grit.

Used to rebuild centreless grinders decades ago amongst other things, the damge by using grease has to be seen to be believed in no time at all.

Offline Chazz

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2011, 02:32:44 PM »
Thanks folks, were I am located there is no supplier of 'Way' oil, however I noticed that Grizzly(?) had way oil in IIRC 10 through 60 weight so I'm thinkin' 20 weight for the horizontal and maybe 40 for the vertical?

Cheers,
Chazz
Craftex CT129N Mill & Craftex 9 x 20 CT039 Lathe

Offline Miner

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 04:54:17 PM »
Chazz,
Since your a fellow Canadian, KBC Tools stock way oil in small and large containers. But prices from KBC Canada are for most things far higher than from the U.S. Due to your location, Shipping is going to be a factor no matter where you mail order from. You might try a visit to a local bulk fuel/lubricant dealer. One problem with that is they do deal in bulk supplies so most times the minimum is a 5 gallon pail. But they might be willing to order in a couple of one liter containers for you. Failing that you might want to try a few auto parts stores in your area. If it's a decent auto parts store with a knowledgeable person behind the counter then most likely they can get it for you. Try a parts store that caters to the loggers. Also you might ask at a few local machine shops about where they get their way oil. Any oil is better than no oil but automotive high detergent motor oils are NOT compatible around bronze like whats used in your leadscrew nuts. I'd recommend Vactra no. 2 way oil. Your city is large enough that somebody will have it or can get it. I live in a small B.C. town so I'm very familier with the problems just trying to find what you need. My mill is a bit larger than yours so I just ordered a 5 gallon pail after I got my mill and figure there should be some left at the end of my lifetime. Using the proper oil and regular applications is the cheapest preventitive maintenace you can do. I'd also never use grease as oil is thin enough that it helps to flush out cutting chips and the minor wear particals that result from just using the equipment. Proper way oil also has additives that help retain the oil on the ways and prevent stick/slip problems that can happen with closely fitted surfaces.

If that mill is something you just bought then I'd also highly recommend pulling the table apart and cleaning out the rust preventitive grease used at the factory on the leadscrews and table ways.. None of the HSM type mills are machined or assembled in anything that could be classed as close to clean room conditions. Your mill will last far longer and work much more smoothly if you do this. I used a grease cutting solvent to clean mine. It's not a hard or complicated job to do and I make a point of pulling my table off once a year just to clean any wear particals out, And for my mill verify that the one shot oil system is pumping oil to every area it should.

Pete

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 05:22:19 PM »
Hi
Pete
Most engines have bronze crank thrusts wrist pin bearings and valve guides
Many gearboxes run engine oil (bronze baulk rings & selector forks)
I am just interested as to what 10/40 oil will do to a bronze feed nut
Regards
John

Offline Miner

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2011, 06:51:27 PM »
Hi John,
Yes your 100% correct about the usage of bronze in engines and transmissions. It's my understanding that it's the type of bronze alloy used by most machine tool manufacters where high detergent automotive oils become a problem due to the chemicals within detergent motor oils reacting with some of the alloys used in the leadscrew nuts. I'm using my information from more than one of the machinists at work who were very positive that those high detergent motor oils should never be used for lubricating machine tool leadscrews. Non detergent motor oils will work but not as well as the proper way oils. Also high detergent oils are designed to keep wear particals in suspension so the oil can be cleaned by a engines oil filter. So using those in say a lathes headstock is a bad idea. You want any wear particals to settle to the bottom of a lathes headstock and then flushed out at the next oil change. I work in the open pit mining industry and currently work at a very remote mine in north western B.C. A major problem for us is stocking the correct lubricants required by the OEM just to maintain our equipment. Some of our engines are worth more than $300,000. Our hydraulic systems can run into the millions. After seeing the longevity that can be obtained by using the correct lubricants and proper oil change intervals I can't argue with the results. But beyond that, Proper way oils do have a very noticable effect on how smooth the table and leadscrews operate. Maybe with some luck a lubricant engineer will read this and confirm if what I wrote is in fact true. Till I can get a positive answer then for myself I'll continue to use what my mill manufacter recommends.

I once made a very stupid mistake and used a heavy weight gear oil on the power feed for a Emco Compact 5 lathe. Due to how thick the oil was and the oil drying out a bit it created a huge drag within the power feed assembly. That resulted in frying the motor. Replacement cost from Emco, $800. I now consider using the proper oil in the proper areas to be good insurance. Proper lubricant is dirt cheap compared to replacement parts.

Pete

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2011, 09:44:15 AM »
Hi
Pete
All very valid points
John

Offline Chazz

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2011, 10:43:15 AM »
@ Miner, thanks for the info.  KBC will NOT ship ANY fluids to me!  :(  (They even consider grinding compound a liquid & will NOT ship), I checked with both 'bulk' plants (Esso & Shell) and they are only interested in selling me a barrel as neither stock the product and it has to be a special order.  :doh:

But I will try NAPA and see what they might be able to do.  Thanks again for the ideas.

Chazz
Craftex CT129N Mill & Craftex 9 x 20 CT039 Lathe

Offline Miner

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2011, 01:13:08 PM »
Chazz,
No problem.Like I said, I have some idea just how tough it is to get some things when you don't have a machine tool supplier just down the block. Any kind of oil or liquid is a huge PITA to get shipped in from anywhere. You might be able to buy some from a machine shop too. Untill you get some way oil then a light weight hydraulic oil would work, For the most part I think that's a major ingredient in way oils except it's missing the tacifiers and the additives to reduce stiction in closely fitted surfaces.

John,
That $800 replacement motor was a very expensive lesson so you might say I'm a bit paranoid about using the wrong oil.

Pete
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 01:44:00 PM by Miner »

Offline 75Plus

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2011, 01:34:33 PM »
I have had good service from chain saw bar oil. The main attribute of way oil is to stay where you put it. I find that chain bar oil does this as well as high priced kind does, AND you can find it everywhere, in small quantities.

Joe

Offline DennisWA

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2011, 02:48:19 PM »
If you cannot get way oil, I also recommend chain saw bar oil for vertical use - never use grease!

I use proper way oil as I can get a 5 gal drum for a fair price.

Dennis

Offline Pete.

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2011, 10:11:10 AM »
Hi
Pete
Most engines have bronze crank thrusts wrist pin bearings and valve guides
Many gearboxes run engine oil (bronze baulk rings & selector forks)
I am just interested as to what 10/40 oil will do to a bronze feed nut
Regards
John

Nothing I hope - I still lube my nuts with engine oil. Oh wait.....

Offline dickda1

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2011, 03:12:27 PM »
I use heavy weight way oil.  Sticks to everything very well.
-Dick
sunny (mostly) San Francisco, land of looney people, sane politics and occasional earthquakes.
Skype: VladTheChemist

Offline Chazz

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease? - Update
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2011, 10:06:44 AM »
Wee Hee  :headbang:  I ran into the Esso Bulk plant Manager and bribed him with a case of suds, he will bring in a 20 litre pail of Mobil Vactra #2 for $75.00.   :clap:

Thanks for all the input folks.

Chazz
Craftex CT129N Mill & Craftex 9 x 20 CT039 Lathe

Offline Pete.

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2011, 10:46:44 AM »
Nice. Do be sure and report back on how it works. I know that I was happy with 15/40 until I used way oil then I was even happier.

Offline Miner

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Re: Vertical Way, Oil or Grease?
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2011, 07:21:09 PM »
Chazz,
Great score. Considering how far north you are that's a really good price too.

Pete