Author Topic: How do I fix my milling machine runout?  (Read 11613 times)

Offline raynerd

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How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« on: March 22, 2011, 06:18:13 PM »
I`ve noticed the last couple of holes I`ve drilled have been quite oversize, when I made a concious effort to watch the chuck it was clear that it was not turning true, it had a clear hight and low point. I got out my nice DTI and measured the runout on the flat of the chuck which was measuring 0.27mm!!! I put in a stub drill and was measuring the same off there! So I removed the chuck and put the DTI on the outside of the mill spindle to find a runout of no more than 0.03mm. I then put the DTI on the inside of the spindle and actually the runout was less, just vibrating within one of the 0.01mm divisions. I cleaned the inside of the morse taper and put the chuck back in, inserted a stub drill and measure a runout on the drill flat of 0.17mm. An improvement but still terrible!

So I`m confused. Clearly the spindle is running true and after cleaning the spindle bore/morse taper I expect the chuck to be seating correctly. Could something have happened to my chuck? - seems unlikely. Anyone any suggestions as to what could have happened or how to improve this before I continue to use my mill?

 :(

Offline doubleboost

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Re: How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 06:43:24 PM »
What make of chuck is it
Some of the cheep ones are total crap
If the spindle is running true it can only be the chuck

Offline Blade

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Re: How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 06:55:36 PM »
The chuck on one of my drill presses had quite a bit of runout, I put a carbide bit in the jaws of the chuck and put the whole thing in the lathe and rebored the taper on the chuck. You have to be careful not to remove too much so that the taper wont go too far into the chuck. and bottom out before seating.

Offline jiihoo

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Re: How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 07:03:10 PM »
Hi,

Let's see if we could do some troubleshooting here:

According to your measurements the spindle mouth runs true but the drill chuck doesn't. Thus either the drill chuck or arbor is faulty or something inside the spindle morse taper is preventing the arbor from seating correctly.

Do you have collets or morse taper endmills or drills or even a morse taper dead centre from your lathe that you could test with (basically anything that you could mount directly to the spindle)? If they test true, then it is definitely your chuck and/or arbor.

When you cleaned up the morse taper, did you explicitly check for burrs both inside the spindle and in the drill chuck arbor? Do you remember if the arbor has slipped in the spindle lately?

One thing you could test: if you can get the drill chuck and arbor separated, you could measure the runout on the arbor and thus prove that the arbor is good ==> then you know for sure it is "just" the chuck.

Can you go visit a friend with the chuck/arbor or borrow a similar one off a friend for measurements?

Have you ever measured your chuck's runout before or was this the first time (i.e. do you know that it has ever been "perfect" or could it have been slightly off from the beginning and just gotten gradually worse over time)?

If it is just the drill chuck, then there should be no reason to stop using the mill :thumbup:

Cheers,


Jari

Offline raynerd

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Re: How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 07:28:07 PM »
Well I`ve read your advice, ignorantly I thought it was immediately a problem with the mill and didn`t consider the chuck so I`ve now removed the drill chuck and measured run-out with my er32 collet chuck - it has now gone down to 0.09mm. This still seems high to me - is this acceptable? Move it back up to the outside of the spindle and it is about 0.03mm. The outside of the er32 collet chuck is about 0.05mm but I guess this is irrelevant as the centre of the chuck doesn`t have to be necessarly concentric with the outside but still thought I`d measure. 

Hummm... does 0.09mm seem about right (about 0.0035") ?

Chris

Offline andyf

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Re: How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 07:54:13 PM »
Hi Chris,

Looks like the ER32 collet holder, or the collet itself, is a bit out of whack, though obviously better than the drill chuck. Try the DTI on the taper within the collet holder. Also, make sure that the spindle taper, the taper in the collet holder and the collet itself are all scrupulously clean. Though more likely to happen when ERs are used on a lathe, tiny chips can enter the slits in ER collets, and be left behind when the collet is removed, or lurk in the slits ready to cause trouble when the collet is re-inserted.

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Anzaniste

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Re: How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 08:02:16 PM »
I have the same problem on an ER32 collet chuck on my lathe ( http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=4439.0 ).
I plan to grind the inside of the collet chuck as suggested but this means making an internal grinding spindle for my tool post grinder which has delayed proceedings.
I  also have an ER 32 Collet chuck on a No2 Morse taper for my Centec mill. So far I have not checked the run out bot I expect there will be more than I Want. I will check it and grind out at the same time as my lathe chuck. I ill be disappointed if there is more than .001" TIR run out. After-all that is why one has a collet chuck.
Scrooby, 1 mile south of Gods own County.

Offline jiihoo

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Re: How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 06:49:32 PM »
Well well, 0.17 runout on the drill chuck and 0.09 on the ER collet. If your collect is about half the length of the drill chuck (measured from the spindle nose to the end where you did the measurement), then that would really point towards the spindle or Morse taper, I am sorry to say.

One more experiment that you could do: Put the drill chuck (or collet) back on and measure the runout. Find the spot where you have the most positive runout value and mark it on both the spindle and the drill chuck. Remove the drill chuck from the spindle, turn it 180 degrees (half a turn) and put it back on. Your marks are now on the opposite sides. Measure again. If the culprit is the drill chuck, then the most positive runout value will be found near the mark on the drill chuck. If the culprit is the spindle or Morse taper on the spindle, then the most positive runout value will be found near the mark on the spindle (opposite the mark on the drill chuck).


Cheers,

Jari

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 03:15:30 AM »
Have you checked your bearings for play, Chris?

Clock on spindle, no gear engaged. Pull/ push gently to measure any slop.....

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: How do I fix my milling machine runout?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 04:07:13 AM »
As you have already checked the inside of the spindle for runout, which seems, within your measuring capabilities, as OK, then really the things to suspect are the bits you are wacking up into it.

You should find it much easier to check for runout of tooling using your lathe, and I think as yours has a morse taper spindle, it is easy to stick the bits what you want to check into that.

Unless you have made the tooling and arbors yourself, and you know they are right, then don't trust cheap tooling at all, always check and put things right before using.

I have been very lucky with my keyless drill chucks and arbors from RDG, both R8 & MT3, I have about a dozen of them, and none have any detectable runout. As for ER collet chucks, mine is a very early one, and runs perfectly true, but I have had to true up a couple of new ones for people that have had runout as much as 0.004" (0.1mm). That figure must be less than 0.001" (0.02mm) or even better, none at all, otherwise, they are not worth using.
They don't have to be ground, if you are very careful, they can usually be trued up with a normal cutting tool and using the topslide set up exactly to the correct angle.

I've done a post somewhere showing how I cut the taper for an ER collet chuck, the same method could be used for truing.


Bogs
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