Author Topic: Mill Tapers? (Read 26071 times)

Stilldrillin · « **on:** January 30, 2011, 03:43:41 PM »

My mini mill spindle is M3 taper, and a real pain to remove sometimes.

In a few weeks time, I hope to have another machine....... I guess most on here would recommend R8 taper.

I'm sure I've read, somewhere, there's a loss of available height compared to morse taper. Though I can't see why......

Does anyone know?

Does R8 tooling stick further out of the machine, compared to Morse Taper?

David D

75Plus · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2011, 04:29:08 PM »

I have two mills, an X-2 and a BF-20 clone both of them have R-8 tapers. The collets pull up flush with the bottom of the spindle. R-8 tool holders, however, extend 1 3/8" or more past the end depending on the design of the holder.

Joe

Bogstandard · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2011, 04:40:06 PM »

Dave,

Having used both systems, the R8 is grossly far superior to MT tapers. Most times they auto release, if they don't, the slightest tap on the drawbar does it.

For holding cutters I have done away with using my ER32 holder, and use them in R8 collets straight into the spindle. A set of both Imperial and metric collets should cost lest than a full blown ER32 set.

I never noticed any difference with either R8 or MT, as they both seemed to extend about the same length out of the spindle nose, that is things like collet chucks, drill chucks and boring heads.

John

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:15:57 AM »

Quote from: 75Plus on January 30, 2011, 04:29:08 PM

I have two mills, an X-2 and a BF-20 clone both of them have R-8 tapers. The collets pull up flush with the bottom of the spindle. R-8 tool holders, however, extend 1 3/8" or more past the end depending on the design of the holder.

Joe

Thank you Joe.
The collets fitted directly in the spindle, or a toolholder explains a lot!

Quote from: bogstandard on January 30, 2011, 04:40:06 PM

Dave,

Having used both systems, the R8 is grossly far superior to MT tapers. Most times they auto release, if they don't, the slightest tap on the drawbar does it.

For holding cutters I have done away with using my ER32 holder, and use them in R8 collets straight into the spindle. A set of both Imperial and metric collets should cost lest than a full blown ER32 set.

I never noticed any difference with either R8 or MT, as they both seemed to extend about the same length out of the spindle nose, that is things like collet chucks, drill chucks and boring heads.

John

Thank you John!
R8 is the way to go!

Hmmm....... Around 3 weeks ago, a pal who I've guided to a 7 x 12 Chester Conquest, asked me about a milling machine.

We chatted..... I thought, there are a few things I would now like to change with my mini mill and tooling.

We agreed a deal for my kit, and I was going to buy a Chester 16V, and new MT2 tooling, r/table etc.....

BUT! The more I think about my little workshop, and what I do. The mini mill is adequate. Would be even better as R8!
Little Machine Shop do an adaptor! (Though I'm on the wrong side of the Pond).

The more I think about, what should be a pleasant catalogue perusal..... The more confused I get!

David D

Dean W · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2011, 09:41:52 PM »

Quote from: Stilldrillin on January 31, 2011, 08:15:57 AM

BUT! The more I think about my little workshop, and what I do. The mini mill is adequate. Would be even better as R8!
Little Machine Shop do an adaptor! (Though I'm on the wrong side of the Pond).
David D

Well, you do have friends on this side if you decide to go with the upgrade, David. Send a note if you need
help with shipping arrangements.

Dean

kvom · « **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2011, 07:50:00 AM »

If you do get the R8 collets, I'd suggest you get the 1/32 set (or the metric equivalent). This allows you to use standard drills and reamers as well as endmills. Thus no need to mount a drill chuck when Z height is scarce.

John Stevenson · « **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2011, 07:52:52 AM »

Double check the R8 spindle from LMS isn't longer than your MT spindle to take into account the bigger taper.
You may be able to live with it or not ? your choice.

John S.

75Plus · « **Reply #7 on:** February 01, 2011, 10:40:53 AM »

David, My X-2 mill, with R-8 taper, measures 44mm from the bottom of the head to the nose of the spindle. Hope this helps. The larger taper is accommodated by using a larger ID lower bearing. The two spindle mounted gears also have larger ID's.

Joe

Jonny · « **Reply #8 on:** February 01, 2011, 11:30:21 AM »

Here you go took some finding

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/drawings/1407SpindleR8.pdf

May need other bits to like draw bar to suit if different, bearings, spacers, etc

Jonny · « **Reply #9 on:** February 01, 2011, 11:36:37 AM »

This is the MT3 with dimensions
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/drawings/1508Spindle3MT.pdf

If all goes back in you will lose 1" of heigth with the R8 purely because the machine wasnt designed for it with larger bearings and beefier spindle, so has to sit lower.

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2011, 01:03:36 PM »

Dean.
I'm sure notes will be passed, shortly. As on previous occasions. Thanks!

Kvom.
Thanks! That is my intention, now I've found they fit directly in the spindle. As John Bogs says, a set of both systems is cheaper than an ER32 set!

John S, and Joe.
Thanks for your teamwork! My spindle protrudes 21mm..... Giving 23mm loss of height.

Jonny.
That's perfect! Thank you..... Those drawings back up the tape measure calculations.

Sooo...... It looks as though I lose almost 1", but gain 2" with not using this 10mm chuck......

How far does an ER32 holder protrude. 3" mebbe? Gaining all the time!

Hey! What a crackin forum this is! Ask a help me question, and next day you've got most of the answers!

Everyone, thank you!

David D

75Plus · « **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2011, 03:03:56 PM »

Just a thought David. If you do opt to go for the conversion it would be a good time to convert to steel gears inside the head. LMS can supply them. Of course if you have converted to belt drive this would not be necessary.

Joe

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2011, 03:17:57 PM »

Thanks Joe.
A belt drive may be fitted, sometime in the future.

Mind you...... I've not bought the machine, yet!

David D

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2011, 08:00:56 AM »

Well.....
The idea struck me on Monday, and it's still here....

I am very happy with the Conquest, which is a benchdrill or mill..... Rather than just a mill.

I would like more traverse in Y, also a wider table. Just like the latest Conquest! http://www.chesteruk.net/store/conquest_mill.htm

If I'm fitting R8 spindle, as Joe says I could fit steel gears, and they're cheaper than belt drive.....

Anyone got any comments. Good, or bad?

David D

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2011, 01:38:53 PM »

Quote from: Stilldrillin on February 03, 2011, 08:00:56 AM

...
If I'm fitting R8 spindle, as Joe says I could fit steel gears, and they're cheaper than belt drive.....
...

Belt drive. Much quieter. The metal gears are very noisy, plus the eliminate the built in 'safety' feature of the gear shredding it's teeth instead of damaging something else.

Belt drive is quieter. You can also eliminate the high/low gears/lever.

Easy to make your own. The plans are out there. Chris made his own I believe... Belts are a little tough for you to get there. But if you want, i can send a supply from here. I live about 10min from Mcmaster Carr.

Eric

75Plus · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:37:37 PM »

Eric, The intermediate gear remains plastic so that safety valve remains. The major difference is that if you strip the intermediate gear it can be replaced in 10~15 minutes. If the internal gears fail you are looking at MAJOR downtime just replacing the gears not to mention the time required getting it back in tram. I haven't really noticed much additional noise since I changed over. I did find that the original gears were not lubed properly. The orientals put gears and grease inside gearboxes but they often are not very well mixed!!!
That being said, the belt drive conversion is best in the long haul.

Seig is also making the SX-2 which has direct belt drive driven by a BRUSHLESS motor. Little Machine Shop offers it in the US. Look here for details:

http://littlemachineshop.com/3900

Joe

spuddevans · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2011, 04:46:34 PM »

Quote from: Brass_Machine on February 03, 2011, 01:38:53 PM

Belt drive is quieter. You can also eliminate the high/low gears/lever.

A big fat 2nd on that, I built my own belt drive conversion using some ali lumps, and if I could do it then you should be able too. It is so much quieter and smoother running.

Tim

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2011, 04:51:30 AM »

Eric, Joe, Tim.
Thanks for that...... Belt it is, then!

But. I'll not be making my own..... No time nowadays, even to do the things I really want to do! (As shown in the Robinson thread).

Don't anyone believe, when you retire, you'll have lots of time for doing the things you really want to do. That's all propaganda!

David D

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2011, 03:48:46 AM »

The spindle and belt conversion were ordered from LMS yesterday......

Will be an interesting exercise. How long to get to Rotherham...... Then how much to pay for release and final delivery......

David D

Bogstandard · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2011, 04:20:08 AM »

That's fairly easy Dave.

Roughly 90 squid cost, then that means 18 squid for 20% VAT import duty, plus either 6 for somone like DHL or 8 for Royal mail to tell you what to pay. So that is 24 or 26 squid, give or take a little.

But the customs are getting really nasty now, and the last time I got something (in December) they charged me VAT on the postage as well. When I complained to the head man about it, he said that I had been undercharged, but they won't be pursuing me for it. So 35 bucks for the parts plus 35:29 bucks for postage, then the customs charges, then 8 for the post office to tell me how much to pay. So it ended up tripling the cost of the items almost.

See relevent bit below

Bogs

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2011, 04:31:55 AM »

Hmmm..... Thanks John!

Now try it with £165 total cost.....

I was astounded at last summer's charges, for the Huxtable engine, from Aus.

Best not to argue..... Just pay up, and try to look happy!

David D

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2011, 08:30:19 AM »

A jolly Young Man, in a big brown van, brought me a box of goodies!

Exactly 4 days from ordering. (Which was the middle of the night in Pasadena). £36.01 to pay, COD........

Happy!

David D

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2011, 09:43:21 AM »

Hmmmm......

Guess I should order a set of roller bearings now.

1 off, 30206. 1 off,32007....... Unless someone knows different?

David D

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #23 on:** February 09, 2011, 12:50:39 PM »

Mid afternoon......

An apparently frustrated rally driver hurled his big white van into our little cul de sac.

Brought me a 100mm, tilting rotary table, with chuck........

Getting better all the time!

David D

Stilldrillin · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2011, 01:02:41 PM »

Just a little update......

The new mill arrived last Wednesday.... 5 days early!

Yesterday, I managed a couple of gentle hours in the workshop......

Completely stripped the head. Doesn't look quite so pretty now.

David D

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Author Topic: Mill Tapers? (Read 26071 times)