Author Topic: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine  (Read 162328 times)

Offline arnoldb

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2011, 10:59:41 AM »
 :clap: :clap: :thumbup: That crank really looks good Stew!

 :beer:, Arnold

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2011, 11:40:52 AM »
Thanks Guys

Chuck they are great way of getting round the sheaves problem.  :thumbup: I'll file them away fro future use.

Rob:- I think I'm going to go with the 7" fly wheel, I've also decided to use a Hackworth governor they are more compact, and look easyer to make.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2011, 03:58:29 PM »
Hi Stew

Witch Hackworth ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the bloke from up here ?


Rob

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2011, 05:23:36 PM »
Don't know whhere I got Hackworth from  :bang:

Got it wrong just checked the book its Hartnell but I bet he's from up north all the best engineers are.

Tried googling his name but kept getting pitures of Doctor Who  :scratch:

Any way this is the sort

http://murdochsite.tripod.com/Hartnell.pdf

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2011, 01:49:55 PM »
Hi Stew

You had me thinking there ,as i could not remember MR Hackworth ,, making a governor  :doh:

Rob



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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2011, 03:43:37 PM »
Looking good Stew  :thumbup: 

This is going to be a stunner me thinks?    :headbang:

Double inspired today  :beer:




I might not be saying much but I am following along  :)






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I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2011, 04:36:46 PM »
Cheers Rob/Ralph

These post are coming in big lumps, My Dad is in hospital, his dementia has got worse over the last month, so I've been spending quite a bit of time visiting, and taking R and R in the shop, to keep my mind off things, so the posts have been a bit spread out.

Any way making the con rods, first I spent a bit of time getting a bit of old rusty garage door squared up and milled to size then a stuck the two rods together with two sided type, and doweled them through in a part that will be milled away later, and marked the rod out.

This is one of those jobs where you have to get the sequence correct cutting the wrong bit off at the wrong time and you will make things difficult for yourself, so I spent quite a bit of time machining the rods in my head first before doing it for real.

Making two together save a lot of setting time.



Rough drill the bearing holes and holes for what will eventually form the middle of the rods



Then drill through for the clamp holes for the big end bearings caps.



Then over to the RT and radius the ends

Big end



Little end




Then with a slitting saw cut off the big end bearing caps.





Drill for a 3mm dowel hole that will stop the bearing shells turning.



Tap the bearing caps M4 I'm going to bolt things together from the rod side this way the bolt heads won't fowl the cross head.

Chew away the meat from the middle.



As the cap bolts will be on the rod side the bolts won't sit flat due to the rad, I could square this off but that wouldn't look right, the solution is to back face to give the bolts a flat seating.



To make the back facing tool.

Using a length of 8mm silver steel (drill rod) mark it out for length for the back facer, turn a 4mm holding spigot, then gash out a single flute, and with a file back the cutting edge off, heat to cherry red hold it at this for a couple of minutes and quench in water, temper to a straw color, and sharpen the cutting edge on an oil stone.

To use pass the tool through the bolt hole grip the end in a chuck, tightened good and tight, and slowly wind it back so that it cuts a flat platform for the bolt.



Worked a treat the bolts sit nice and flat now.



This is my set up for using the coaxial on my mill and No 3 morse taper collet with a concentric split bush:- I didn't have a collet of the correct size but it runs dead true.



This gives me plenty of head room on my X3.



Clock the little end up to get thing on centre and zero the dials.

I then worked back from the big end, finding the edge and zeroing up the Y, set the vice stop, removed the rods from the vice, fastened the caps tight onto the rods, returned to the vice hard up gainst the stop, and them with a 15mm end mill finished off the big end bearing seat.



Move to little end position, and finished of that bearing seat with a 12mm end mill.



Now I have to decide how I'm going to fancy up the rod, when at John,s the other night he showed me a con rod that he had made, it was tapered toward the little end with a radiuses scallop that matched this taper looked real nice, so I was wanting to do something similar.

Tried a lose assembly of the parts to try and get a feel for how things would looked.



Decided that I would stay with the square parallel lines but to thin the rod off up to the little ends with nice radiused corners and a scallop down the middle.

Radius the corners both sides first with a ball nosed cutter then with an end mill thin it out by 1.5 mm a side.



Then mill the scallops with a ball nosed cutter I just went 0.5mm deep.



And last I reduced the width of the little end, If I'd done this earlier it would have made gripping thins difficult.



Thats them done a bit of a tickle with a file and a rub with some emery and I reckon they'll do.





Stew




 



 


A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline dsquire

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2011, 04:55:01 PM »
Stew

Very well done and nice presentation as well. Our thoughts and prayers are with you for you Dad. Just keep plugging away with 1 (or 2) piece at a time and before you know it you will have the last piece in you hands.  :D :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don

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Offline saw

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2011, 05:00:08 PM »
Thanks for the lession very nice indid.  :bow:
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2011, 02:29:01 AM »
Stew.
So sorry to hear of your, and Dad's problems. Been there ourselves.......


I'm a little preoccupied, too.

But. Still watching...... Still appreciating all you're doing, and showing.  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2011, 02:29:51 AM »
Thanks for your kind thoughts Don

Thanks Dave Hope things work out OK for you to.

Thanks for you comments:- Kenneth and Saw

 :wave:


I do like to show things step by step, as it's not always appreciated how much thought and planning has to go into making a part, its far more involved than just hacking away at a chunk of steel and hopping it will come out right at the end.

Stew

« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 02:34:18 AM by sbwhart »
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline raynerd

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #86 on: February 26, 2011, 03:58:45 AM »
Stew, amazing stuff and great photos. Two trivial questions compared to the rest of the work and setup you have shown... firstly what blue layout ink do you use? Your parts always look much darker and clearer layout out than my efforts- I`m always squinting to see my markings never mind capture them on camera. Secondly, exactly how did you pin the two piece together? I have a feeling if I tried this mine would separate mid-machinging. You said you used 2 sides tape and a dowel. Just standard 2 sided tape? How was your dowel inserted -  a hole drilled in one side and a matching hole whole on the other with a dowel glued in place?

Excellent work -can`t wait to see it running!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2011, 05:45:13 AM »
Thanks Chris

The blue I use is just standard engineers marking blue from Chronos, I put it on with a brush and let it dry for 1/2 hr, the lines show up better if you applied it to a shiney serface.

The dowels I use are 3mm silver steel but I drill No 32 or No 33 which is just under 3mm so that the dowels are a light drive fit. Try and dowel the parts together before you square the stock up that way it will be like working with one solid lump of steel and the parts will be identical when parted, the two sided tape comes in handy just to keep the bits together whilst you drill for the dowels, the tape is just cheep stuff I got from the local market works OK for me.

Doweling parts together is used a lot in jig and tool manufacture:- the tool room I served my apprentiship in made a lot of press tool with parts doweled together, to maintain alignment.

Hope this helps

Stew



A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #88 on: February 26, 2011, 06:01:43 AM »
Bin thinking about the marking blue, I guess on a dull or black hot rolled surface marking white would show up the lines better, I think I've seen castings marked up this way I wonder what was used, any ideas.

Stew

A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline andyf

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #89 on: February 26, 2011, 06:43:45 AM »
Maybe you could use paint - white primer or undercoat would do.

Andy
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2011, 06:59:04 AM »
Bin thinking about the marking blue, I guess on a dull or black hot rolled surface marking white would show up the lines better, I think I've seen castings marked up this way I wonder what was used, any ideas.

Stew

Stew.
When I wor a lad......  ::)

Every morning I had to crush a lump of chalk, big as me fist, and mix it with water for the marking out department men.

They painted on. Then blew dry with the airline, when in a hurry.  :thumbup:

Used on iron valve castings. Daren't leave any lumps in.......  :doh:

David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline scrapman

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2011, 12:47:40 PM »
Hi stew  :wave: the build is looking great, sorry about your dad i know what your going through my mother had vascular dementia,


Ray.

Offline NickG

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #92 on: February 27, 2011, 04:57:00 AM »
What about those white paint markers? Don't know what they'd be like but worth a try.
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2011, 03:39:42 PM »
Hi Stew


Cracking job you have made of the rods  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:   ,,,,,,,,,,,,, Will this be your next engine publication  in model engineer  :poke: :poke:  :)


Rob

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2011, 04:57:17 AM »
Hi Stew

Will this be your next engine publication  in model engineer  :poke: :poke:  :)

Rob

Hmmmmm depends on how it comes out Rob, little bit concerned about the size it looking as though it will be a bit bigger than I had in my minds eye, its scaled at 1/3 of the full sized engine I think I would have been better if I had based it on a 4" fly wheel which would have bin about 1/6 th but that would have led to other complications.

Any way on with the build :-the split big end bearings, I was concerned that to make split bearing is waist-full on material, then John suggested to make them from two bit of oblong bar milled of square and held in a four jaw. I had already got some brass plate put aside to make the eccentric straps, when I measured it up I realized that I could get the split bearings out of it as well.

So soldered the two half's together as John showed in his resent post





Square it up in the mill and with a slitting saw cut the bits out:-The square bit will make the Straps and the the long bit at the top the bearings.



For the bearings square the bar up making sure to get the join on centre, then grip it in the self centering four jaw, turn up dia then drill and ream the bore and part off to length.



Apply a little heat to separate



To finish off fit a small dowel in the hole I drilled in the con rods and mill a small flat in one bearing half, the dowel will stop the bearing spinning in the housing, like a key.



Thats them done

Eccentric straps

Taking the same amount of both sides so the join stays central thin the blank out a bit



Then drill a 10mm hole in the middle, turn a mandrell up and use this to mount the blank on the RT line the RT up using the centre in the mandrel.

Scratch a centre line using a centre drill held in the chuck.



I used CAD to work out the angles to generate the strap.



Then first drill the corners 3mm



Then with a 3mm slot drill mill out the shape.





With the straps still on the mandrell and using the mandrell to find the centre line drill the strap M2.5 tapping and drill a 1/6" hole to help locate the rod.



Then line the scratched centre line up using a parallel.



And with a 1mm slitting saw split the strap in half.



Tap one half M2.5 and open the other up to 2.5 and bolt the two half's together, then in the four jaw, (check the split is on centre) bore out to for a nice running fit on the eccentric sheath.



Separate the two straps by heating them up.

To face the straps to thickness you need to ensure you get the bolt holes central so turn up some little bushes 4mm dia and fasten the two half of the strap together with these bushes.



Turn up a mandrel same size as the sheaths, I used the bit of bar the sheaths were made from, clamp the strap to this and with a sharp tool, small cuts and time, face the strap off until you just kissing the bush, turn it over repeat the other side and the hole will come out in the middle.



Done



This is what it's looking like



Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline ozzie46

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2011, 05:29:10 AM »



   Great work Stew. Your really coming along nicely.

 Ron

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2011, 05:30:04 AM »
That is really looking well now Stew. Those parts have turned out perfect.

You've done a great job scaling it down, and personally, I think you have got the size right, any smaller and the parts would start to get a little fragile, plus you wouldn't have as much 'fiddle factor' to play with, a big consideration when doing a one off like this.


John
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Offline saw

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #97 on: March 05, 2011, 09:00:33 AM »
Nice work.  :thumbup:
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Offline arnoldb

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #98 on: March 05, 2011, 03:52:36 PM »
 :D Looks great Stew  :thumbup: :clap: :clap: Lovely Job  :bow:

Kind regards, Arnold

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #99 on: March 12, 2011, 03:20:47 AM »
Thanks John/Keneth/Ron/Saw/Arnold

Well things slowed down a little on this project over the last week I wanted to get all the connecting rod things done before moving on to other parts, but the material for the return connecting rod has bin a long time in coming I bought it nearly three weeks ago off flebay, chased them up a couple of times and was on the point of putting it in dispute and claiming my money back from paypal, when I got notification this morning that it was in shipping, we will have to see if it arrives next week. In the mean time I did that little break rod job, with that complete I decided to get on with the fly wheel and pulleys for this engine.

For the pulley I thought I would try a method thats bin cooking away in my head for some time:-fabricate sticking all the bits together with high strength loctite, not sure if this will work but we'll give it a go.

This is the material I'll be working with:-a dog end of some thick wall pipe, a bit of hex bar and some 3/8" round mild steel bar.



First job drill across the hex bar and tap M5 for each six sides, turn up some 3/8" spokes and thread M5 then stick them in the hex with the loctite.



Then clean up the rim, and bore out leaving a step 1/2 dia of the spokes + the thickness of the rim deep.



Then after giving the loctite 24 hrs to cure and with light cut skim the spokes down to a close fit in the rim.





Then assemble the two together with the loctite.



 My employer was a big user of loctite and the rep always said that the strength of the bond was a function of the contact area so I'm hoping that the thick spokes will give enough contact area for a strong bond that will do the job, if it doesn't the fall back will be to drill through the rim into the spokes and pin them together.

I'll leave it to cure before I do anything else to it, them we will see what we will see.

Stew


A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire