Author Topic: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated  (Read 7398 times)

Offline Bluechip

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Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« on: December 04, 2010, 03:17:37 PM »
This is quite interesting ....





It does explain in the post-amble Q &A why it's done  ..  :thumbup:

Dave BC
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Offline Dean W

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2010, 08:49:25 PM »
Yes, that is quite interesting!  Somewhat entertaining, too.  Sometimes machines are a great help, but
honestly, I could do this faster by hand.   :lol:  They probably couldn't afford me, though.  Especially
if the pay was "All the almonds you can eat"...
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Offline cidrontmg

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2010, 10:44:20 PM »
Good grief... I donīt know how expensive soukoukis might be in Cyprus. But Iīd be willing to bet that that machine will never be lucrative. Merely the energy that it uses to produce a hole on an almond will guarantee that the operation will never be profitable. If thereīs any competition in that market, he doesnīt stand a chance. Never mind his excellent skills at automation. Reminds me of a soviet (russian) potato picking machine, that picked 50% of the potatoes. The rest had to be picked by hand... A technological marvel, and totally useless...
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2010, 03:50:41 AM »
Did actually occur to me it was not thought through ...  :scratch:

My take would be to use a shotgun on the tree. Harvested and drilled all in one ..  :thumbup:

Dave BC
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Offline dsquire

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2010, 03:58:33 AM »
Dave

But you still have to put them on the silly string.   :bang: :bang: :lol: :lol: :lol:

But it was a good idea for the holes.   :doh:

Cheers  :beer:

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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2010, 04:11:52 AM »
Dave.
Sorry Mate. I almost nodded off, after 2 mins or so.....  :scratch:

You watched it all the way through, to see what it was all about.... ??  :scratch:

Some people have WAY too much time on their hands!  :)  :lol:

David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2010, 04:34:00 AM »
Dave

Bit tedious, was searching for CNC PCB milling, and found that. Not actually fascinated by drilling holes in almonds, strangely enough. Not a talent I'm keen to acquire.

Yup, probably right. Too much time ...need to do some thing useful .. I will count my M3 washers, and stamp serial numbers on 'em   :lol:

Don

Never thought of the 'stringing' bit, will leave that one to you ...beyond my current technology, I'm afraid.  :thumbup:

Dave BC
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2010, 07:58:05 AM »
It does look a little tedious and slow, but earlier on in my life, this is the sort of thing I used to design and build. The one shown is perfect for the job it was intended for, and would only cost around maybe a few hundred whatevers to replicate, once the original design was up and running.

I designed and got running a prototype net bagging machine, you know the type, half a dozen oranges in a long thin plastic mesh bag, heat sealed at each end. Very slow in operation, but who's worrying, one chappie filling a hopper at one end, finished product dropping into a box at the other. All done with a few micro switches and sensors, a couple of small pneumatic cylinders, small electric motors and carrier belts. Nothing spectacular, but they get the job done.
That is why most 'fresh' things in a supermarket nowadays are of uniform size, very easy to make a little machine to pack them. One less person needed in the shop putting them in bags and pricing up, that onus is put onto the supplier, which is how I got my commision to build one, he was 'into' garlic bulbs, in bulk.

For a one off, no use at all at that sort of speed, but when you have 10 of the same slow operating machines, being fed and looked after by just one person, that is when you gain your profits, no tea breaks, aching fingers, piddle stops, filthy hands handling the goods etc, just banging them out day and night. If you wanted to, 24 - 7 - 365. The running costs would be negligible compared to wages saved.

There are most probably hundreds of thousands of little automated processes like that in operation around the world.

It used to be the same in old production workshops, there wouldn't just be one slow shaper, there would be a bank of say five of them, all being run and fed by one operator, at the end of the day, mass production.


Bogs
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Offline Spurry

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2010, 08:48:22 AM »
Ok, I have to ask...

What is the purpose of drilling nuts, to put on a piece of wire?
Very clever design...but not quite sure what the end-game is.

Pete

Offline Powder Keg

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2010, 09:37:02 AM »
The guy makes some kind of traditional candy on a string out of then. I bet it doesn't take him long to pay for that thing either. "specialty" candy's go for a premium here in the states.
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Offline Spurry

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2010, 10:56:45 AM »
Thanks PK, learn something new every day.  :thumbup:
 
Pete

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2010, 12:21:59 PM »
Yes, that is quite interesting!  Somewhat entertaining, too.  Sometimes machines are a great help, but
honestly, I could do this faster by hand.

Let's say the "contract" is to accurately drill 100,000 almonds.  You could do that in less than 500,000 seconds (= 139 hours)?

I will say that the designer of that machine has never studied orient and deliver systems.  That flagged belt is the wrong approach.  An escapement slide to a transverse-slope chute would orient the nuts much faster and (mostly) use gravity for power.  A chain delivery system would eliminate the pick-n-place mechanism and move things along a lot faster (I would hazard that I could build a machine to do that drilling operation within 1 second/nut -- maybe as low as 0.5 second/nut including delivery).  I probably have 4 feet of bookshelf devoted to nothing but mechanisms such as these.

I built a machine for a customer earlier in the year that takes all the parts for a "stool analysis system," orients them and assembles them into a completed unit (9 component parts + a liquid filling operation) at a rate of 750,000/shift/year (i.e. completing 9.98 units/minute).  It was a shitty job, but someone had to do it!  ;-)

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2010, 01:59:56 PM »
Lew,

Not everyone has the money to throw at things like this little machine. I have worked on one offs that were multi million pound exercises, where you can afford to have the best of everything, but something like this one, most probably made up from what was in the scrap box, and which didn't matter which way the s**t was pointed, was perfect for the job.

Why use a sledgehammer to crack a peanut (or drill and thread an almond in this case).

Almost any qualified engineer designer/maker can fault almost anyone elses design, but who is to say his modified version is right for the specific job.

Having seen so many one off machines up ended into a skip because they never really competed with the manual way of doing things, I have lost count. Where do you think a lot of my raw materials came from?

I used to cringe whenever we had a new bunch of engineering graduates come in, all wanting to change the world within a week, when all they had to do is ask the people who do the job in the first place, and they would be told why they shouldn't. They seemed to be in a world of their own. Six months down the line most of them were out of the door, for wasting company time and money on stupid and uneccessary projects, and it was up to me to get things working smoothly again. Until the next time it happened.

Not everyone needs the latest all singing, all dancing, faster than light gizmos.

This one just doesn't need to go any faster or be any more complicated or different. It works, although not as efficient as it could be, but is perfect for it's intended job as it stands.

Bogs
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Offline cidrontmg

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2010, 02:56:13 PM »
The guy makes some kind of traditional candy on a string out of then. I bet it doesn't take him long to pay for that thing either. "specialty" candy's go for a premium here in the states.

Maybe. There are only 670 000 Greek Cypriots living on the island, and many others who put almonds on a string. A 2-meter string of Soutzioukos almonds cost usually some 3 euros (=the equivalent) in 2003. They might be more expensive now.
Olli
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Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2010, 12:04:18 PM »
Not everyone has the money to throw at things like this little machine. I have worked on one offs that were multi million pound exercises, where you can afford to have the best of everything, but something like this one, most probably made up from what was in the scrap box, and which didn't matter which way the s**t was pointed, was perfect for the job.

Why use a sledgehammer to crack a peanut (or drill and thread an almond in this case).

Almost any qualified engineer designer/maker can fault almost anyone elses design, but who is to say his modified version is right for the specific job.

Having seen so many one off machines up ended into a skip because they never really competed with the manual way of doing things, I have lost count. Where do you think a lot of my raw materials came from?

I used to cringe whenever we had a new bunch of engineering graduates come in, all wanting to change the world within a week, when all they had to do is ask the people who do the job in the first place, and they would be told why they shouldn't. They seemed to be in a world of their own. Six months down the line most of them were out of the door, for wasting company time and money on stupid and uneccessary projects, and it was up to me to get things working smoothly again. Until the next time it happened.

Not everyone needs the latest all singing, all dancing, faster than light gizmos.

This one just doesn't need to go any faster or be any more complicated or different. It works, although not as efficient as it could be, but is perfect for it's intended job as it stands.

Bogs,  I am neither a "new" engineer (I started working as a mechanical design engineer in 1973) nor "graduate" engineer (I grandfather the degree requirements by 4 days), just a tool & die machinist who "backed" into design/development mechanical engineering through the latter days of the Apollo program.  I had eight years of "floor of the shop" experience before I proposed my first "design improvement."  About one-third of my "work" involves fixing problems that various companies have.  About 80% of the time my "solution" comes from spending a few days in my client's shop, talking with the workers, and letting them tell me what the problem really is (management's opinion is very often wrong).  I always tell my clients which one of their workers had figured out what the "problem" was and how much of "my design" is really that worker's advice.  About 20% of the time the workers point me to where the problem "appears," but they missed the point where it was caused.

Franklin Jones wrote the handbook on orientation and positioning of small parts back in the 1930's (Ingenious Mechanisms for Designers and Inventors).  I have worn out two copies.  I (try to) steal from the best.  My current copy is new enough that I have to work to find things in it (my previous version was so well worn that it would "fall open" to the pages I wanted -- just before it fell apart entirely).

If you take the time to study what other people have done, you will find that the optimum "feed" for "lozenge shaped parts" is a vibratory escapement leading to a ramp that is transected by a chute.  This was determined sometime prior to 1934 (which was when a Department of Commerce text on the subject of orientation and alignment was published by a combined committee of the Departments of Commerce and Labor).  Knowing these facts have made me a "hero" on numerous occasions.  Literally, you can break down object shapes into a handful of designations (lozenge, cylinder, cup, pill, etc.) and find an optimum sorting and alignment mechanism set from known (and proven) successes.  As I had done the work to optimize an assembly system for the device used to sample "fecal matter" from "feces" only two months ago, much of this information was "current" in (what's left of) my mind.  (It was a shitty job, but someone had to do it.)

Back in the days when I was a Boeing "shift manager," I used to "fight" with Industrial Engineering all the time.  They would send some fresh-out-of-college type who would drill five holes through parts clamped to a workbench using sharp drill bits and time his work.  He would then write a report saying that it took (say) 22 seconds to position the parts and drill the holes.  I would require that he do the work on an airplane for six hours before I would "accept" his report.  It was amazing how the "estimates" would change after such an exercise.

There are few tasks that cannot be automated.  It took nearly four decades of (taxpayer supported) research and development to fully automate the picking of tomatoes (a project I have worked on several times).  We now have a machine that will run up and down rows of tomato plants and pick a tomato at the "peak of ripeness" based on the emission of a certain gas from the fruit.  This machine (which became commercially available in the late-1990's) does a better job of picking and handling tomatoes than a person does.  Was it worth the effort?  Hell-if-I-know.  It was WORK that paid my bills (from my knothole).  Now that we have it, a farmer can purchase such a machine for a bit more than a year's worth of minimum labor cost and (almost) double his income from a given (but large enough) tomato patch.  Even tomato farmers in Mexico are using these beasts today.

I spent most of 1984-1986 working on the USAF/NASA Factory of the Future program.  In this manner, we perfected: CNC machine tool controllers, automated loading and unloading of machine tools, applied adaptive controls to optimize cutting, and touch-probe inspection of parts.  Please note that we "perfected" (and standardized) these technologies -- they had already been "under development" for 30-40 years when we did our work.  Many of the people with whom I worked went on to "sell" automation to anybody who could get the government-backed loans to apply these technologies to their factories.  88% of the companies that did so went out of business within a decade because the costs associated with "full automation" were much higher than generally believed.  The people I know who did this made lots of $$$.  I refused to go this way and tried to show companies how to use pieces of these technologies to improve productivity -- or, as I put it, augmentation rather than automation.  I made nowhere near as much $$$, but nearly all the companies for whom I worked were still in business (and making money) a decade later.

Merrick's first rule of design is that there is always a better way to do something.  You do what you can within the allowed budget when you are given the opportunity to do something.  Someone else will later come in and make whatever you did better.  That's the nature of life in the design world.

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2010, 03:22:34 PM »
Lew,

I wasn't getting at your qualifications at all, what my argument is that they most probably had a limited budget, limited materials, and it finished up doing the job it was designed for.

So why even bother discussing making it any better?

If they were site members, then yes, maybe you could suggest improvements, but as it is, not worth the bother.


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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2010, 02:20:16 PM »
Stepping in before things get heated.

Differing opinions here... Let it go. Now, lets have a laugh at drilling nuts...

Eric


*cleaned it up a bit....
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 02:31:27 PM by Brass_Machine »
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Offline Majorstrain

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Re: Drillin' Holes in yer nuts .. automated
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2010, 10:09:04 PM »
Quote
Franklin Jones wrote the handbook on orientation and positioning of small parts back in the 1930's (Ingenious Mechanisms for Designers and Inventors).

Thanks for the book reference Lew.   :thumbup:
The science library here at uni has the full set. They are in my hot little hands as I type.

Cheers,
Phil