New Vice for my mill ?

[picclock]

Hi

I've had enough of my cheapo vice I bought with the mill (http://www.warco.co.uk/Tilting-Drill-Vice-A4F7347EE5.aspx#) and have decided to go for one of the Angle Lock type. Since its a small x2 style mill I figure 4" is about the right size. My old vice suffers from jaw lift - to the extent that even with tapping it down the the last fraction of a turn will lift it again. Its also mounts the wrong way round to the table. I have tuned it to be square(ish), and made new jaws but at the end of the day, I really could do with somthing better. It was only cheap and I have no complaints but its no longer (and probaby never was) up to the accuracy I now require.

Chronos do a Vertex VA4 for £120, however Amadeal/Axminster appear to do clones @ £66 an £77.50 respectively.

Does anyone have the clones and are they any good - or is it worth spending the extra £50 or so for the Vertex one ?

I'll be going to the Sandown show so it may be possible to pick up one there.

As a possible alternative, I notice that Arceuro do a camlock vice. How do these work and do they suffer from the jaw lift problem that most of the budget vices seem to have ?

Best Regards

picclock

( I also posted this on the Mill Drill forum)

[Bogstandard]

I would suggest you stay away from the camlock ones.

They are designed mainly for drilling machines in a production environment, where parts can be swapped out at speed. I have one here that is very similar, and I haven't used it in anger for maybe 20 years.

In fact, in all honesty, I wouldn't fit, for general use, anything other than a standard flat vice, say a Vertex K series (removed from it's swivelling base).
When you start playing about with tilting, swivelling and even ones that flush the toilet, you will be losing rigidity, and that should be your main concern when using these light home machines, otherwise your surface finishes and accuracy will suffer.

The bells and whistles, twists and angles can be obtained by other means.

But of course, we can only advise, it is up to you what you decide to buy.

Bogs

[andyf]

Hi Picclock,

Bogstandard mentioned the Vertex K series; I use a K4, usually without its swivelling base, and it seems very satisfactory to me, but I'm very much an amateur, so my opinion shouldn't be given too much weight.

The jaws are 4" wide and open to around 2.5". That's less than the VA4 you are looking at, but there's usually some way of clamping anything bigger direct to the table. My only real criticism is that all its non-critical surfaces are covered with a black crackle finish. I suspect this masks the fact that the scale hasn't been removed from the castings in those areas. It is quite rough to the touch, and makes it difficult to clean away fine chips. The K4 weighs 10kg (less without the swivel base), so would be easier to heave around than the 20kg VA4.

And Chronos have the K4 on special offer at present.

Andy

[AdeV]

I also have an "Anglock" type vice (got mine from Gloster Tooling), which is supposed to push down as well as across, when you tighten it up, like the American Kurt vices:



It still suffers from rear jaw lift, but nothing like to the extent my old Abwood vice does. Its quite light, for a vice, but it seems to do the job well enough. I made some aluminium soft jaws for mine, which at least allows me to chase that last 0.001" of accuracy around the place, even if I don't always catch it.

Mine came with a swivel base that I've never used, I think I might take Bogs' advice next time I mount it, and do so without the swivel base attached. It's been a good vice to me, and I would buy another one if I needed to.

Search for "titelock" on eBay - at the moment they've only got the bigger ones listed, but they do a 4" version from time to time.

[Davo J]

I see you posted it in the mill/drill forum as well, we must get around the same circles.lol

I have one like pictured above and it works fine, not sure what size that one is but mine is a 160mm. The one thing to look for is a thrust race bearing on the screw as it will make the clamping force much better. Mine didn't come with one, so I added it but I see some advertised as having them.
I have a K type and would prefer to use the angle lock one because I think it holds down better and is more versatile with being able to move the jaws to the outside for bigger jobs. With the threaded holes in the back of the fixed jaw it also allows a length stop to be bolted to easily.

Dave

[Jonny]

I also have an "Anglock" type vice (got mine from Gloster Tooling), which is supposed to push down as well as across, when you tighten it up, like the American Kurt vices:

I have a 5" width one shallowish jaws same height as the 4", different colour and brand name, made in same place. Bought mine on offer from J&L of all places £75 inc vat 8 1/2 years ago.
No jaw lift on mine you can take it out.
No bearing on the backlash adjuster get it close it seizes up at inapprpriate times, should be a simple mod.

[Davo J]

Hi,
You only need the bearing on the inside so it takes out the friction between the screw flange and the vice when doing it up. It will give a lot more pressure
Mine didn't come with any screw covers so I made some up screwed to the nut.
For you guys that have one, I see the one in the picture it has a screw cover does it overhang when fully open and does it have one on the front? If anyone has any better pictures of the covers I would be interested.

Dave

[AdeV]

The screw cover on mine is just a bit of tin plate. It gets pushed backwards by the moving jaw, until it falls out or fouls the handle. It can be inserted under the fixed jaw to fill the gap there, but then it sticks out of the front & fouls on the column.

It's around the shop somewhere, but I've not seen it for a while...

[Davo J]

Thanks for that, I thought that was the way they worked, but just wanted to be sure. I think I would have taken it out as well if I had of got one on mine
I have made up my screw covers and decided after a few years or reliable work that it deserved a bit of attention, lol, so I have cleaned it up and debured it and am going to repaint it within the next week.
I will post my mods up in a new thread when it's done to give you guys some ideas.

Dave

[AdeV]

I plan to use a piece of neoprene rubber on the back of mine; at least then it'll move itself out of the way of the handle, as it comes past... Mind you, I've also got plans to make a 3-handle handle for the vice, as they look a lot more convenient than the articulated number that comes with the vice.

Just as soon as I work out how to cut a square hole.... 

[Jonny]

File it, easy.

[Davo J]

Mine has a hex on the screw, will a 1/2 inch or 3/4 socket fit? Even though I have a couple of mills I find for one off jobs it's sometimes easier to file and external hex. The internal ones are a pain to do, so If I can I weld 4 plates together to make the square and then machine the outside round.

Dave