New Bench, and questions

[PeeWee]

Hi All,
well since ordering the new machine tools i have been in a ponder y, should i use existing benching or build a new one.  the answer was quite simple, an excuse for an additional bench.

this all arrived at 14:15 this afternoon,


the large sheet of ply will form the back, mdf the bottom shelf, the worktop speaks for itself.

excuse the poor workmanship but i am no chippy.
1 hour in i had made the top and bottom frames.


2 hours in and the basic bench is assembled



the question is do i need to add a secondary set of legs?  all the frames are made of 2 by 4 in old money.  here is what i mean 



whilst thinking about this a chucked up some shelves in my clean (ish) area

[Miner]

PeeWee,
At the rear of your bench I'd add some 2"x4"s at a approximate 45 degree angle running from the top of your outer bench legs to the bottom of your lower shelf at the middle leg area. This will stiffen up the whole bench a huge ammount and prevent racking of the bench itself. Alltho if your using a thick enough plywood back this will accomplish the same thing. When building wooden framed benches it's impossible to make it too rigid so I'd use large screws along with a good grade of glue for final assembly at all areas. You might want to add a few more 2x4s  running front to rear at your lower shelf area as that will help support all the weight of stored items that will slowly build up over time. They also sell sheet steel corner braces that are not expensive. These could be used for any areas where you have the ends of your 2x4s meeting the face of the 2x4s and they would certainly help stiffen the bench too, But more importantly they would help prevent your joints from loosening up over time. End grain wood has poor fastener retention capabilitys compared to face grain. I'm not sure what you used but for myself I'd never use nails in this type of construction, Screws only, And on any areas I could I'd use thu bolts, fender washers with lock washers and nuts. Then anything that did loosen up is easily retightened. LOL, I tend to overbuild everything.

Pete

[Divided he ad]

Hi Peewee,

As said by Pete bracing is essential!  Of course the ply backing will provide this too.... As long as you use plenty of screws, from the way you have the legs the ply would need to go between the uprights and screw directly onto the horizontals IMHO. maybe put bracing on the back of that if you still think it needs it?

A very useful thing to be able to do if possible is fix it to the wall at a few points, if you look at the brackets holding the tracks up on the rear of your garage door (Hormann retracting if I'm not mistaken? I know, how sad am I.... Fit 'em for a living!)  they are great for fixing shelves and benches to the wall and floor... They hold mine solidly (no shakes when hacksawing 50mm metal bars!)  also pin my mill bench to the floor   


What are you putting into the area under the bench? Cause there are some ideas on my thread in this section of the forum.

Pretty cheap tool boxes from Chester UK and the project trays idea I borrowed from another party (named in the post IIRC?) is an awesome addition IMHO 


Looks pretty sturdy so far 



Where about are you in the UK? Many of us have been/just started adding our general (not exact for security) area on our side bar/signature line (Profile edit) helps us know if we can aid in just text or come visit and talk about tons of stuff    .




Hope some of that is helpful?








Ralph.

[PeeWee]

Thank you for the responses,  i will add the additional strengthening braces to the lower section as mentioned.  on the back i will also add infill between the legs before putting on the back.  all joints are screwed and glued, no nails have been used as i didn't think they would suffice.  unfortunately Ralph the bench will have to be free standing hence the large ply backing, though i could use the mentioned brackets to bolt it to the floor.

i forgot to mention in the 3rd picture near the bottom you will see some plastic trays as used in schools, these will be used in half the bench with a shelf on the other half.  this would also add additional bracing from front to back. 

location added kettle can be spotted in the last picture 

[Trion]

Just a thought.
I like to stuff things under my bench, like welders, vacum cleaner etc. Therefore I have made my bench without horizontal braces close to the floor. For rigidity, my bench is screwed to the concrete floor and wall. I have so far been able to "tow" an older vw bus into my garage by using a "packing strap" attached to a bench leg

[andyf]

I hate to criticise, but I might have used half-lap joints at the top of each leg, so that the top frame was sitting partially above it and putting it in compression. Then, the screws and glue wouldn't be taking all the strain.

Andy

[PeeWee]

I know exactly what you mean Andy   ,  its what i was thinking also by using secondary legs between the 2 frames and below the bottom thereby creating a compression joint.

[John Stevenson]

Fit closing strips on the front horizontal stringers to stop bits rolling under the bench.

Don't ask !!

I have fitted strips cut at 45 degrees, old bits of flat roofing edges, to mine, stops bits going under and makes it easier to clean, no sharp corners.

Depending on what use you are putting this bench, general or machine, think about running some plugs across the front in conduit so power tools don't have leads trailing across the back knocking all the crap onto the floor.

John S.

[Jonny]

Just a thought, i did something quite similar years ago. Materials cheap and readilly and easilly obtainable.
4X2" same, jointed glued and screwed together rawl bolted to wall top and bottom.
Problem being although quite sturdy took an RF25 mill and more was the noise, it was unbearable even for me. Even a bench grinder was noisy tolerable on rubber feet but only used for a minute or so.

Cut the section for mill out and put it back on spindly angle iron frame rawl bolted to wall, silent.

[PeeWee]

Hi,
Allthumbz, in imperial i used #10 screws around 3 inches throughout, not a nail in sight.

Jonny,  i too am concerned about noise and would normally bolt  a bench of this type to a wall, however i have no wall available.  Where the bench is in the picture normally lives a classic mini    (the wifes toy).  this means the bench will live in the space between the 2 sides of the garage.

I will if necessary bold the whole thing to the foor, though i am hoping with the added ridgeidity it wont be necessary.

[PeeWee]

HI All,

Almost finished, the draws are trays rescued from where i work and the runners are old bed slats need some minor adjustments to ensure level and smooth running.  \Since I have decided to upgrade the machines by a total of 200Kg i have now upgraded each of the 6 legs to include a compression joints.  Should have done thos originally.





in the last picture it looks like the lower shelf is not level.  in fact the garage floor drops about 80mm from right to left, this is due to UK building regulations.  the hardest bit was to get each of the 6 legs to the correct length to ensure the top was level.
total size of the bench is 3.5m or just over 11 ft.  All i need now are the machines and electric.

regarss.

[Brass_Machine]

Nice looking bench. I believe it should work for you. I like the drawers...

Eric

[Miner]

That's coming along very nice. I like the drawers too. Your going to get a lot of use out of that bench.

Pete

[PeeWee]

final shot of the bench and the machines it was built for.  i will add the kick plates and electrics over the next week or so.



i will probably add a few more draws and a shelf.

regards

[andyf]

Looks good, Ian  .
Might I suggest some sort of curtaining across the front, to stop chips ricocheting off you into the drawers and shelves?  An old shower curtain would fit the bill.

Happy New Year to one and all.

Andy

[Rob.Wilson]

Hi PeeWee

Thats a great set up you have there ,,,, nice way to start the new year 


Rob

[JimM]

i forgot to mention in the 3rd picture near the bottom you will see some plastic trays as used in schools, these will be used in half the bench with a shelf on the other half.  this would also add additional bracing from front to back. 

Liking those drawers too, where did you source the trays from  (or is the mrs a teacher !!)

Cheers

Jim

[PeeWee]

Hi Jim,
The trays are from my School.  i am an IT Director for one of the independent schools and the Physics department was having a referb and i pulled them out of the skip.

i have enough for another row of draws
 

[Bogstandard]

Jim,

As long as you don't want to store anything too heavy, I use cat litter trays from Wilko's. They come in a variety of sizes, from kitten to all night howlers.


Bogs

[crabsign69]

i think u might want to consider some bracing under those machines. after a while that table will bow with that weight on there.
just my 2 cents

[sportandmiah]

i think u might want to consider some bracing under those machines. after a while that table will bow with that weight on there.
just my 2 cents

Yup. Add some bracing, or place the machines above the legs. It looks strong, but it's going to need a little more support.

[Divided he ad]

Ian,

Looking at it with the machines on I'd have to agree with the others, you'll probably need a few more legs.... I have 4 sets on mine (3 deep around the tool boxes)  Fixed to the walls and the floor with approx 600mm centres and I don't have too much weight on there.

(  http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=395.0   If you're interested?    )


You could split each section with a leg front and rear, as long as it's compressed between the bottom of the upper horizontal and the floor it will be ok....But I know you know that from reading the earlier part of this thread  

A couple of legs like the ones you already have will add lots of strength I would think?





Still looks like it's going to be a stormer of a workshop






Ralph.

[PeeWee]

Hi All,
Well i recieved some nice pagages over the last 2 days.



these are from Allendale are are DRO's for the mill and lathe though i have only got one display.  the idea is to mount it between the 2 machines with a couple of RS232 serial change over switches.
Some of the more beady eyed will notice that i tok the advice of the forum and put in some under bench power sockets.  the machines are now powered from behind the bench.


another set of draws rescued from a scip at School.  extreamy sturdy and holds all my bar stock.

Also i have added another set of legs.
all the best.

[Divided he ad]

Sweet! I just finished fitting my DRO to my mill.... I got the 3 axis head too with a view into fitting scales to my lathe... I'm interested in seeing what you do with the switches?


I'll have to create a super mounting arm for my readout though as my machines are on opposite sides of the walk way.




Good luck and remember to check the plug pins for bends and orif you're me....  small flakes of swarf   




The bench looks mighty fine too 







Ralph.

[PeeWee]

Hi All,
DRO's fitted today and up and running.  Just have to remember to change the X axis diameter setting when switching between the lathe and mill.

Ralph,  here is a picture of the 2 switches one each for X and Ybetween the 2 machines.  they have been tested and worked perfectly out of the box.  dont forget the 2 additional cables required from the switches to the readout.



saddle top had to be turned 180 to ensure grub screws were on the chuck side.