Mill questions update

[rdstars]

Just wanted to know has anyone here got a Warco Major. I know Chester & Axminster do the same machine re'badged.

I know its a round column and ive been told that round columns are not as good as dove tail columns, supposed to be more play etc. The bed size on the Warco Major has a travel of around 500mm which is perfict for me but the Dove Tail of the same price has got less travel on the bed.

I know nothing about Mills just the re'search ive been doing over the last few weeks. On another forum alot of the advice was Just buy a Bridgport, I can get my hands on an Adcock & Shipley 1es Mill BUT my main issue is space, also I am only a hobbiest trying to learn.

Now this is only one of the jobs I would like to do: Skim small bike heads, there just an ally block of about 9" x 7", realy quite small. Lots of other things I want to use it for but that would be the largest job.

So how much play would I be looking at or how accurate on small heads would I have with the Warco Major Mill, can anyone post up a few pics or information on skiming that they have personaly done with a small mill.

Thanks

[Divided he ad]

Hi Mr Star 


Just taken a look at this... http://www.warco.co.uk/Major-Milling-Drilling-Machine-E1466C1C6A.aspx#

Assuming that is the one your talking about then it's a very close cousin of the "new" second hand machine I just got my grubby mits on.

(Also similar to a Chester eagle.)


Just a few words....  If your going to skim cylinder heads then you will definitely need a power feed of some form. This is a must IMO, I'm not talking out of my...
I'm a time served mecahacanic and former engine re-manufacturer and can tell you that it's going to be very hard going to get the finish required for a good seal without a power fed machine.

9x7".... Quite a large cutter required I'd have thought 
I'll have to look at my machine, see what it'll cut and still allow the cutter to clear the work, cause that's quite important if you want a uniform skim. Should be fine... But I'd like to check before I say so. I suppose if it's trammed correctly (Adjusted to cut true) it should easily work.... I'll still check though.

Some video's of a guy I'm subscribed to making a flycutter with more mass and then one of his few on skimming  (I know it's on a bridgeport, but it's the set-up and cutter I'm showing, it only uses one tip, this is standard practice with skimming  )

&feature=related

&feature=fvw

Check out some of his other videos too. A larger (greater mass) cutter is made and certainly helps with the finish.


Have you looked at the second hand market? My machine came with a power feed and was under half the cost of the warco in the link above. I can tell you it works perfectly well, see the post on my shop... http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=395.15


This shows my new mill and the finish it got.... Once I learn to grind the flycutter tools correctly the finish will be far better. I had a go at that the other night, got this funish from one out of 4 tools I ground up..... It's not as easy as you might think!!  (got my new boring/facing head to use yet too  )



And for those who like detail...






The round column thing..... Well, My last two mills have had them, I know other very well accomplished gents who have owned them and created awesome engines and fettled fantasticly odd stuff with them.... I think they work fine.

The only issue these mills have IMHO is the loss of "register" when you alter the height of the machines head. (it turns on the round column when you wind it up and down. Causing you to re-set the tools to the work).



Hope all that rambling is of some help?? It's late here in North Wales and I can sometimes go on a bit!! 






Ralph.

[rdstars]

Chears Ralf.

Just a quick question, am I right in thinking with my calculation that to skim you need a cutter just over half the width of the job, and a bed travel that will cover the lenth of the job plus total width of the job.

Forinstance and more accurate measurements:

Head lenth: 220mm

Head width: 180mm (Just under)

Fly Cutter 90mm

Travel of bed needed: 400mm (Just over)

If so ive seen some Dove Tail Mill's cheaper than the Warco Major.

With the power feed Warco do sell attachments for this but Ive had thoughts of making my own powerfeed, a small motor to turn the handles when I want to use them, does this sound good.

[Jasonb]

You want a flycutter head that is larger than the cyl head so something that the cutting tool would swing an arc of say 200mm would cover your 180mm width.

This means you need to have bed travel of 1/2flycutter plus job plus 1/2flycutter so 100+220+100 = 420min

Jason

[rdstars]

Thanks Jason,

The head is not 180mm total width all the way just at one point in the middlt and that point dont realy sit on the barrels to seal, the rest of the head is  130mm.

Here is a head that ive had skimed and machined just to give you an idea of what im trying to explain as im rubbish at putting it in words.





The head was skimed on an Emco Compact 10 Lathe and chambers recut on a small mill.

I have seen this Mill I quite fancy and there not to far from me:
http://toolco.co.uk/pages/bakery/vm30v-variable-speed-bench-mill-21.php

.

[Brass_Machine]

Gonna agree with what everyone else is saying... I do want to add this. If you are like me, and making parts for your bikes (and mates) is one of the reasons you have (or will get) machine tools, then get the biggest you can afford and fit in your shop. As it is now, I have a tiny mill and lathe. But I am always wishing I would have waited and got a bigger one.

Eric

[Jasonb]

That VM30 would have enough travel to use a full dia flycuter so can't see a problem. I would only skim the two bits that stick out separtly if they use another gasget, if its all covered by one gasget then machine all in one go.

The same type of machine is also sold by Warco and Amadeal(e-bay) but just chech the specs as they vary

Jason

[rdstars]

Thanks all.

This is the positive comments I wanted to hear, that is why I came over to this forum, I am just a hobbiest, I am just learning, its only small stuff ill ever be doing but this forum seems like the right place for small workers ( I dont me Ompa Lumpa men ) lol.

I realy carnt see me using an ex industrial Mill to its full extent and also I dont/carnt go that big, I still want plenty of room for the motorbikes through the workshop to work on as this is the main point of the workshop build.

I can go as large as any of the hobby range of Mills easy and what ive been looking at is the biggest and most expensive hobby Mills avalible of the Chiniese stuff.

£1k is quite alot of money just to blow on somthing ive never used and to practice on, want to get it right. I know ill never get that money back but I think that there is no price that can be put on expereance and that is what I hope to get.

Ive watched loads of vids on youtube about skiming and saw one that skimed an ally block on a small Mill but was wondering if some of you would shair some of your pics of some Mill work you have done on your small Mills even if its not related to Skiming heads. It will give me some idea of what it is capable of.

[Divided he ad]

Glad we (  ) was of some 'elp 


 You will find that there are a great bunch of guys on here and will mostly try to help anyone if they can.


I'd have to agree with Jason about the cutter size etc, and I'd always try to skim the whole head as one job.

I wasn't saying go ex-industrial, just saying that you can pick up very capable machines with a few "extras" for very little money these days.

you/we will usually need/use a small fortune to equip the mill with tooling suitable for your needs.... So every penny saved and all that!



Anywho, you'll do as you will and I'm sure you'll be happy with what you purchase since you now have a bit of an insight into what and why....


 We (I'm sure I speak for others too  ) would like you to show us what your up to as you progress too. 


Videos.... Not too sure, none of mine really show the mill in action..... If I see any I'll send you the link/s.





Ralph.

[rdstars]

Thanks Ralf.

Will start posting projects as they get underway but almost all will be bike related.

Im impressed by looking through loads of posts on this forum with the home made engines, for me though it will be more of a case of playing with motors as in 2T.

Got this one vid on youtube I found interesting:

[rog8811]

I am interested to see all the fly cutting going on here... I purchased a clarke version of this mill and found it had unadjustable backlash in the vertical movement of the quill which caused irregularities in the finish.

I ended up making a combined backlash eliminator/DRO mount which sorted out the problem.

Otherwise I have found the mill very accurate and a pleasure to use.

Regards rog8811

[rdstars]

Just another quick question, im at the stage I need to get a Mill so I can finish of my workshop build as the bench work will be focused around that.

So my question: Ive read loads on these cheaper Chiniese Mills like the Warco, Axminster, Chester, etc and alot of there Dove Tail Mills have plastic gears, is this a problem, can you get steel/brass gears off the shelf as a replacement or even a belt drive conversion? Just a little lost on that one.

Chears