Author Topic: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe  (Read 15185 times)

Offline Jonitus

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Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« on: May 06, 2010, 09:44:17 AM »
A couple days ago, my new mini lathe arrived on the front step.  Luckily, I have earned enough brownie points with my wife that she helped me heave the heavy bugger into the basement where my "shop" resides.  That first evening, I unpacked the lathe and began cleaning the Cosmoline from it.  I noticed a few problems with the machine, so I am in the process of getting the machine dialed in.  Here is what I did last night: (reposted from my Introductions thread)

I tore down the entire machine last night.  Nothing went untouched.  Every single moving part of the lathe got a thorough scrubbing with mineral spirits and a good wipe with clean rags.  As I began to put things back together, I lubricated what needed it with a good 10W30 and checked operations.  Here's some of the more interesting finds:

Virtually no fastener on the machine was tight.  As I disassembled the compound, cross slide and carriage, I noticed that all the fasteners were sloppy loose.  The plates on the underside of the carriage that hold it against the bedways were completely loose.  It took me about 45 minutes to adjust them just right, then shim the difference, then readjust.  Once done, I had to work the carriage onto the bedways, but it moves very smoothly and there is NO play.  It might be a bit tight, but new equipment always is until it gets some use.  Also adjusted the half-nuts so they engage/disengage the leadscrew properly.  For some reason, I didn't get a handle for the selector knob, so I'll have to make one...on my lathe...LOL.  I hate that I had to stack a bunch of small shims, so I'll keep eyes out for some thicker stock and redo the shimming of the carriage.

The cross slide was disassembled and cleaned.  Lots of grit and grime to get rid of.  Lapped the gib strip and the dovetails.  Reassembled and adjusted the gib screws just right.  No play in the cross slide.  Much less backlash.  Success.

The compound was a mess.  Disassemble and clean.  Again...lots of girt and grime.  Lapped the gib strip and dovetails.  Reassembled and adjusted the gib screws.  No play.  Much less backlash.

The chuck was taken off and disassembled.  I wanted to change the jaws anyhow, so I figured I might as well take it all apart while I could.  Gross.  Loaded with gunk and grime.  None of the fasteners on the cover plate were tight, nor were the bolts retaining the small gears.  I cleaned it all up and lubricated it.  Took my time reassembling, making sure of what jaw went where AND MARKING THE CHUCK.  I used a automatic hole punch to make a single indent for #1 jaw, 2 indents for #2 jaw, and 3 indents for #3 jaw.  Much better.  Still couldn't find an indexing mark on the faceplate to mount the chuck, so I'll have to test when my measuring equipment gets here.

I also ditched the splash pan.  It wobbled.  I can live with getting the surface of the workbench oily.  It'll give it character, right?

Long evening, but I have increased the fit and finish of the machine by orders of magnitude.  It is now much closer to being ready to be put to work.

As an aside, I wanted to throw this out here and see what some of our machinists thought of the idea.  The guy who looked over my shoulder as I was machining the apparatus for my master's research project had a neat tool he used to indicate parts in a 3-jaw chuck.  It was a steel bar milled to size to fit a standard tool holder, and had a roller bearing on the end of it.  He'd lightly chuck his workpiece and move this tool up to the work and you could see the piece come into alignment.  When it was running true, he'd tighten the chuck.  He could always get within about 0.001" of true with this little tool.  I'm thinking about making one or having one made.  Thoughts?



Offline Bernd

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 10:07:15 AM »
Thank you very much Jonitus. I realy apprciate it.  :headbang:

Bernd
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 12:35:54 PM »
I have heard of that tool. There is a video somewhere of a tool like that.

Are you going to replace the headstock bearings on the lathe? I have heard going to higher quality tapered bearings will help.

Eric
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Offline Jonitus

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 12:41:55 PM »
I have heard of that tool. There is a video somewhere of a tool like that.

Are you going to replace the headstock bearings on the lathe? I have heard going to higher quality tapered bearings will help.

Eric

I'm sure I will eventually change the headstock bearings out.  When I tore the machine down, I was pleased to see the bearings and gearing for the headstock was clean and well lubricated.  I'll run the machine with the stock bearings for a while until I think they are starting to go out on me.

One thing I have noticed about the machine that I don't particularly like - no oil holes.  All lubrication must be done manually.  It's not really a big deal, but I find it a bit odd.

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2010, 12:51:16 PM »
Seems like you know what you`re about!  :thumbup:

You and your lathe will soon get to know one another......  :D

I love mine. We`ve been together for nearly 6yrs now...... We understand one another....

David D
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 01:27:45 PM by Stilldrillin »
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Richard48

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2010, 01:08:06 PM »
Hi Jonitus;

Looks like you are going at it the right way.

If you got your lathe new and you call Cummins thy will replace any parts that are missing or broken.  When I got my lathe 4 years ago it had a bad gear in the head and thy sent new head.

One thing you will find is if the dials on the cross slide and the compound are marked 0-40 thy are not true 0.001” the lead screw is metric and instead of 0.040” per turn it is only 0.03937” and that can throw you off.

LittleMachineShop.com has a conversion kit #2383 for the feed screws for $54.95 and is well worth the money.

Good luck with the new lathe

Richard         
Richard, Northern NY

Offline Jonitus

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2010, 02:33:54 PM »
That's a good tip about the discrepancy between the marks on the dials and the pitch on the leadscrews.  I'm fortunate enough right now that the type of work I will be doing does not require a great deal of precision - it relies more on aesthetics rather than super-tight tolerances. 

In the past when I would turn a part on a lathe, I always had a set of dividers sitting on the cart I could grab to scratch a mark on the part.  It worked well, and probably what I'll use now...until I decide to invest in a DRO.

Offline sorveltaja

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2010, 11:51:09 AM »
Jonitus, good to see, that you got things sorted out :thumbup:.

As an aside, I wanted to throw this out here and see what some of our machinists thought of the idea.  The guy who looked over my shoulder as I was machining the apparatus for my master's research project had a neat tool he used to indicate parts in a 3-jaw chuck.  It was a steel bar milled to size to fit a standard tool holder, and had a roller bearing on the end of it.  He'd lightly chuck his workpiece and move this tool up to the work and you could see the piece come into alignment.  When it was running true, he'd tighten the chuck.  He could always get within about 0.001" of true with this little tool.  I'm thinking about making one or having one made.  Thoughts?[/i]

I'm not sure, but is it the wiggler, that you are after?


Offline Jonitus

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 09:44:22 AM »
I'm not sure of the exact term used.  My friend called it an "indicator".  I've heard the term "bump indicator" used too.  There is a YouTube video of something similar here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn7A9PqNftY

The one I saw and used was a bit more professional looking.  I did some searching online, and haven't found a tool like this for sale. 

On a different matter - I am delayed in getting the machine set-up.  UPS had a new driver in my neighborhood, and he didn't leave my package like the previous driver would have.  Need to schedule for a re-delivery.  Frustrating.  I wanted to play with my new toy this weekend.

Offline cedge

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 06:21:25 PM »
Jonitus
I have one of the "bump indicator / alignment wheels". It's one of the tools that made life so much easier on my lathe. I recently mentioned building another, using a bearing instead rough cut wheel of aluminum. The suggestion was made to put a wheel on both ends of the tool so a simple swivel of the  tool post would allow either the side or the end of the work to be "bumped" without having to change the tool in the holder.

I spent many an hour making mods to and tweaking out my little 7 x 14 lathe and learned tons of things in the process. At one point someone said mine was no longer to be considered OEM....LOL

Best Mods for the time or money....
Extend the Cross Feed travel... mine added an extra 1.125 of travel. I also extended the lead screw to prevent running off the end of the screw
Add a 5 inch Chuck.... it will fit and worked just fine.
Add an independent lead screw motor with variable speed.
Add Lever lock on the tail stock
Add a small dimple to mate up to the middle screw end in the bronze cross slide nut.... this eliminates nearly all the backlash, once adjusted

Steve 

Offline andyf

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 07:13:20 PM »
Hi Jonitus,

Your lathe will have originated from Sieg in China and you may find these sites helpful:

< http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/prepguides/C3%20Mini-Lathe%20Preparation%20Guide.pdf >
(which includes oil holes, but only in the leadscrew bearings)

< http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/ > (for alignment and modifications)

< http://mikesworkshop.weebly.com/index.html > (a site under construction, but Mike will eventually show around 40 tweaks and mods)

But pimping up your lathe can become so engrossing that you never actually do anything constructive with it  :lol:


Andy

 

Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2010, 02:13:01 AM »

But pimping up your lathe can become so engrossing that you never actually do anything constructive with it  :lol:

Andy

He`s right you know!   ::)

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Jonitus

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2010, 10:49:54 AM »
Unfortunately, I didn't order the dial indicator form LMS.  I thought I had...but it was late that night and somehow I guess I forgot to put it in the shopping cart.  Measurement of runout is going to have to wait until I place another order.

I did, however, get the QCTP installed.  It's nice, but I don't think my setup is rigid enough - especially for operations like cutting grooves with the parting tool.  Look at this photo I took of a test piece I was working on:



Pretty nasty, eh?  Yeah.  I'm contemplating installing a saddle lock to help stiffen things up for this kind of operation.  Regular turning looks pretty good.  Acceptable surface finish.  Especially this early in the game when I've only had the lathe operational for a couple days.

I am noticing though that I am lacking a few tools that would make my life considerably easier.  I work with hollow tubes a lot, so I am looking at getting a bull nose live center to help support these pieces.  I think my turning will improve and it might also help with the grooves a bit too.

Good thing I bought a nice sized toolbox to accommodate all the new tools, bits and bobs I am going to end up buying for my lathe. :headbang:

Offline RollaJohn

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2010, 04:43:09 PM »
Andy, thank you for the link to Arc Euro Trade's Preparation Guide for the C3. I have one on order from Micro-Mark here in the USA and am reviewing what will need to be done to make it functional. Very handy to have a trail to follow along laid out by those who have gone before.

I looked at the C4; but since they had the C3 on sale for the end of May, the $260US price difference for me was too great to pass up. Their normal price difference of $110US between those models and all the good comments about the C4 compared to the C3; and I would have gone for the C4. After receiving the C3  I could be wishing I had. Sometimes we are never satisfied.

Offline Mike K

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2010, 10:32:48 PM »
Jonitus, if you're not already doing it you can close the half nuts to get better parting/facing cuts.

Offline andreas

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2010, 02:16:51 PM »
That was the first time i saw a tool like this!!!!....I`ll make one :thumbup:
Thanks a lot!!!
Andreas

Offline George Greer

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2010, 11:51:01 PM »
Jonitus,

My parting off, and attempts at parting off and grooving looks exactly like your efforts pictured.. :bang:

Rigidity is, or Lack of rigidity is the problem with the cuts looking like yours. 

And it sings out quite loudly..

Am I correct?

George

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2010, 01:37:14 AM »
I'm not sure of the exact term used.  My friend called it an "indicator".  I've heard the term "bump indicator" used too.

Jonitus,  That is a "test indicator" which differentiates it from a "travel indicator."  There are several forms and many names, but "test indicator" is the formally correct designation.  (I worked for the Forest Service one summer many years ago.  It took me more than two months to discover that it is not a "zipper" (a brand name), but an "interlocking slide fastener.")

Offline simp

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Re: Dialing in a Cummins 7x12 mini lathe
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2010, 10:25:28 AM »
Hi lms sells a compound base that the mounting holes are drilled forward witch helps with rigitdity,  and also moves the compound back farther witch lets you turn a bigger part.  You can also drill and tap a new hole between the front compound gib screws and install a locking gib screw witch will lock the compound down.  Also double ck your tool height for center,  If its to high it can cause a problem.  With chatter.  Hope this helps.

Jim