Which Milling Machine?

[zeroaxe]

Oh dear, I am in a pickle....

I got the all clear on getting a new milling machine for my latest addiction(got a lathe a short shile ago too ). But I am in a pickle here as to which mill to buy. I am completely new to this milling business, but am a quick learner. However, I can not make an educated guess as to which machine. I had a look around and there are about 3 or 4 machines that looks about the same on paper...(unfortunately Quantum Germany is out of the question because of the price tag on the 'same spec' machine  )

Here are my options:

• First mill ladies and gents is the Chester Champion 16V, like this:
  
  
  The link can be found here
  
  Basic specs are as follows:
  
  Features:
  Compact, accurate, economical vertical drilling/milling machine.
  Variable speed enables quick operation.
  Spindle is supported by high precision taper roller bearing.
  Gear head provides greater torque.
  Mill head may be tilted L/R.
  Adjustable taper gibs .
  Positive locks for table ,head, quill, column.
  Dovetail column.
  Easy to raise and lower head by handwheel.
  
  Max. drilling capacity                         16mm
  Max. end milling capacity                16mm
  Max. face milling capacity                52mm
  Table size                                        500×140mm
  T-slot size                                        10mm
  Cross travel                                160mm
  Longitudinal travel                        330mm
  Vertical travel                                280mm
  Taper of spindle bore                        MT2
  Spindle stroke                                50mm
  Max distance spindle to table                285mm
  Distance between spindle to column    175mm
  Range of spindle speeds                    Low 50-1250rpm
                                                      High 100-2500rpm
  Headstock tilt left & right                ±90°
  Motor                                        3/4HP
  Dimensions                                        760x550x530mm
  Net weight                                        60kg
  
• Second mill is the Conquest Mill, also by Chester, like this
  
  Link can be found here
  
  Basic specs are as follows:
  
  Description:
  Now here is a mini milling machine that has more features than some Mill/Drills and is affordable for everyone! This little mill will handle any kind of job up to 12mm drilling, 12mm milling. No belt changes necessary! The variable speed control and gear drive saves you time and hassle. Truly, a remarkable machine.  Heavy duty cast iron body and base for better stability. Precision machined table.  The Conquest has two speed ranges—0 to 1100 RPM and 0 to 2500 RPM—great for different thickness and types of material.
  
  
  Features:
  Dovetail column
  Safety shut off switch
  Adjustable depth stop
  Fine feed head control
  Geared drive
  Clear guard on spindle
  Rubber chip guards on ways
  Zero setting dials
  Metric or Imperial Machines Available
  Adjustable dovetail ways on column
  Gas spring head return
  
  Drilling capacity         12mm
  End Mill capacity         12mm
  Face Mill capacity          16mm
  Table working surface          120x460mm
  Longitudinal travel          300mm    
  Cross travel            130mm    
  Max. Distance spindle to column      160mm
  Max. Distance spindle to table       270mm
  Angle of column tilt          45º left or right
  Number of spindle speeds       Variable
  Spindle speed low range       0~1100rpm
  Spindle speed high range       0~2500rpm
  Spindle taper             MT3
  Table T-slot size          12mm
  Motor                350W, 240V
  Dimensions (LxDxH)          570x550x860mm
  Weight    56Kgs    
  
• Third Mill is the AMA16V - Variable Speed by AMADEAL Ltd, like this:
  
  
  Link can be found here. This seems(just like the Quantum BF16) to be almost the same machine than the Chester Champion 16V.
  
  Basic Specs:
  
  FEATURES:
  Compact, accurate, economical vertical drilling/mlling machine.
  Variable speed enables easy operation.
  Spindle is supported by high precision taper roller bearing.
  Gear head provides greater torque.
  Mill head may be tilted ±90°
  Adjustable taper gibs .
  Positive locks for table ,head, quill,column.
  Easy reading scale has satin chrome finish.
  Dovetail column.
  Easy to raise and lower head by handwheel.
  Tolerance test certificate and test flow chart included.
  Max. drilling capacity - 16mm
  Max. end milling capacity - 16mm
  Max. face milling capacity - 50mm
  Table size - 400×120mm
  T-slot size - 10mm
  Cross travel - 160mm
  Longitudinal travel - 220mm
  Vertical travel - 210mm
  Taper of spindle bore - MT2
  Spindle stroke - 50mm
  Max distance spindle to table - 285mm
  Distance between spindle to column - 175mm
  Range of spindle speeds - 50~2250rpm
  Headstock tilt left & right - ±90°
  Motor - 500W(3/4HP)
  Packing size - 500 x 450 x760mm
  Net weight - 60kg
• And then lastly, also by AMADEAL Ltd is the XJ12-300, like this:
  
  
  The link can be found here
  
  Basic specs:
  
  FEATURES:
  Dovetail column
  Safety shut off switch
  Adjustable depth stop
  Fine feed head control
  Geared drive
  Clear guard on spindle
  Rubber chip guards on ways
  Metric dials
  Adjustable dovetail ways on column
  Drill chuck
  12mm drawbar
  Tool kit with wrenchs and not 2 but 4 T-nuts
  
  550W Motor (~3/4hp)
  Drilling Capacity : 13mm (1/2")
  Face Milling Capacity : 30mm (1.2")
  End milling Capacity : 16mm (5/8")
  Longitudinal travel : 300mm (12")
  Cross Travel : 130mm (5.12")
  Working table size: 460mm x 112mm (18" X 4.5")
  Max distance spindle to table 200mm (7.88")
  Spindle taper : MT#3
  Spindle Speed: 50 - 2500rpm
  Spindle Rotary Angle -45°/+45°
  Instructions enclosed.
  American circuit board
  
  

As you can see these machines are almost identical Quadruplets. So I am at a loss here as to which one is "best". I am going to use this mill for hobby projects like quick change tool post etc etc(lathe accesories) and parts for my motorcycle etc etc.

Also, in the same breath, I need to ask which tools I need to get, to get started on small projects like this QCTP and the like. What dove tail cutter/s. Which End Mills(threaded or not)? Which Fly Cutter? ER25 or ER32 collets? I would like to profit and use whichever Collet Chuck I get, to be able to work on my lathe too. The list goes on....

I need to move quick on this decision though as NEXT WEEKEND I am visitting my mate in Harlow, Essex(UK) and need to order AND get it delivered BEFORE the weekend  I need to use this opportunity to get as much as I can, as the prices in the UK is generally cheaper than here in France!!!


So the collective's help will be much appreciated!!!!

[Bernd]

I'd go with either the first or third one. Reason? Because the spindle travels independent of the vertical slide. Much more sturdy.

As far as tooling goes. That's almost an impossible task to tell you what you will need in one purchase order. I'd start with some end mills of different diameters first. Then purchase the the rest as and when you need them.

Just my input on your question. Good luck with your purchase.

Bernd

[75Plus]

I have to disagree with Bernd on this one. The two he chose only have MT2 taper in the spindle which severely limits the tooling you could use unless the drill chuck was the tool holder.

Both the second and fourth mills are made by Sieg. The fourth one, I believe, has a brushless motor which is a BIG plus! I thought at first it was the SX2 but after a further look I am not sure. I do know that the Siegs, with brushless motors, use a US made speed controller. If this is a SX2 here is a review that should be helpful.

http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_mill/Reviews/Sieg%20SX2/SX2.htm

While both of these machines have MT3 taper spindles they can be converted to R-8 spindles with a kit from the Little Machine Shop. Here is the link to LMS:  

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1625&category=

Joe

[Darren]

The important question is what exactly do you have in mind making? You mention bike parts, what parts specifically.

I've made a lot of parts for motorbikes some years ago and any one of the suggested machines just wouldn't cut it in my opinion. They are just too small. I know I'm going to offend some people by saying this but you asked for some opinions.

If you want to make model engines or even model bike parts then any of them will be fine. For full sized bikes you need to be thinking bigger machinery.

Before I get flamed  I'm on my third mill and the one I have now is a touch beefier than a Bridgeport, at times I wish it was bigger. it's all relative to what you want to do with it.

[John Hill]

Hi, I do not have a mill so of course I dont know anything about them but if I was looking for a mill, and lets hope I will in the not too distant future, I would be looking for one that 'matched the size of my lathe'!

My opinion is that to make best use of home shop machines they should all be in the same scale.

[Bluechip]

Zeroaxe

Agree with Darren, depends on the scale of parts you wish to mill.

I have a Warco WM16, 2MT & 600W motor. For most of what I do, it's quite adequate. It does have a 700mm table, this is handy. One of the reasons I got it was some similar machines only have 500mm or so.

Joe is not quite right re: 2MT and being restricted to drill chuck. I have a 2MT Autolock/Posilock (?) takes screwed shank cutters up to 16mm / 5/8". Got it from Chronos IIRC. 2MT also takes my ER25 set up.

One thing I have noticed about two of the models you posted, the handle doins to raise the head looks damned awkward. Mine is on the side. Even this is a PITA. I surmise it would be considerably worse on the others.

Have a look at the WM16 on Warco's site, see what I mean.

New to mills myself. So don't take too much notice ..

Dave BC

[zeroaxe]

I'd go with either the first or third one. Reason? Because the spindle travels independent of the vertical slide. Much more sturdy.

As far as tooling goes. That's almost an impossible task to tell you what you will need in one purchase order. I'd start with some end mills of different diameters first. Then purchase the the rest as and when you need them.

Just my input on your question. Good luck with your purchase.

Bernd

I was also leaning towards the 1st and 3rd machine

As to the tools. I thought of the end mills. A few to start with. But I am not sure what either of these machines would be able to handle cutting normal steel(ie. What diameter end mill will be too much to ask for doing a cut in one go. I understand that it depends of the feed rate and the depth of cut.... but still  ). I a msure I need a dove tail cutter, to be able to cut the 'ways' for the QCTP. How about fly cutters and/or face mills?

Also, what is the 'real world' difference between ER25 and ER32 collets? Why one than the other?

[zeroaxe]

I have to disagree with Bernd on this one. The two he chose only have MT2 taper in the spindle which severely limits the tooling you could use unless the drill chuck was the tool holder.

I did a search on "which Taper. #2 or #3" and it seems that the jury is still out on this one. As with all things, it seems to be like "how long is a piece of string?" question. The mill would not be used for commercial purposes. More for myself. And I was considering either ER25/32 Collet set. But again, which one above the other? So I guess this could open up more options t othe tooling I can use?

Also, I cant find concrete info on converting to R8 or not. Again, the jury seems to be out on this one......

Both the second and fourth mills are made by Sieg. The fourth one, I believe, has a brushless motor which is a BIG plus! I thought at first it was the SX2 but after a further look I am not sure. I do know that the Siegs, with brushless motors, use a US made speed controller. If this is a SX2 here is a review that should be helpful.

http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_mill/Reviews/Sieg%20SX2/SX2.htm

I read the article on the Mill, thanks. Some good info there. Looking at the info on the brushless motor, and looking at the pics. It seems that the first and third machine can also possibly have a brushless motor. I will send them an email and ask anyways. One thing that I noticed, is that all these machines mention "geared drive". So, unlike in the article, it seems they dont have the belt drive. So the comment he made about sudden stops of the motor can shear off teeth scares me  Unless they are steel gears? 

While both of these machines have MT3 taper spindles they can be converted to R-8 spindles with a kit from the Little Machine Shop. Here is the link to LMS:  

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1625&category=

Like I mention above. I still dont get the whole thing about why R8 is better than MT2/MT3. Bear in mind my comment about the ER Collets and that I would like to use the collets in my Chester Model B Super which has MT3 Spindle and tailstock taper....?
Joe

[zeroaxe]

The important question is what exactly do you have in mind making? You mention bike parts, what parts specifically.

I've made a lot of parts for motorbikes some years ago and any one of the suggested machines just wouldn't cut it in my opinion. They are just too small. I know I'm going to offend some people by saying this but you asked for some opinions.

If you want to make model engines or even model bike parts then any of them will be fine. For full sized bikes you need to be thinking bigger machinery.

Before I get flamed  I'm on my third mill and the one I have now is a touch beefier than a Bridgeport, at times I wish it was bigger. it's all relative to what you want to do with it.

The ideas of parts for the bike I mention wont be HUGE stuff. Biggest parts would be like the yoke/triple tree that holds the front forks. Then also little ods and sods.... See, I plan on building my own Chopper. So I will need custom parts. Again, this will more be hobby based than commercial stuff. The day I decided to try and make some stuff for extra $$$, I will then sell this mill on and invest in a bigger one.... I had my eye on soem second hand BIGGER mills, but they are HEAVY and with a upcoming move around September, it will be impossible to take it with (not that it is too heavy or the like, but the other half not NOT support/agree with the logistics(read $$$) it will cost to transport such a heavy machine. Even though where we are planning to go, it will still be economic to buy it here, or the UK and take it there!  )

And who knows, the more I look at these small scale engines(especially the V-Twins) the more I am being tempted to try my hand at one, even if it is a HUGE project for a beginner!!!

[zeroaxe]

Zeroaxe

Agree with Darren, depends on the scale of parts you wish to mill.

I have a Warco WM16, 2MT & 600W motor. For most of what I do, it's quite adequate. It does have a 700mm table, this is handy. One of the reasons I got it was some similar machines only have 500mm or so.

Joe is not quite right re: 2MT and being restricted to drill chuck. I have a 2MT Autolock/Posilock (?) takes screwed shank cutters up to 16mm / 5/8". Got it from Chronos IIRC. 2MT also takes my ER25 set up.

One thing I have noticed about two of the models you posted, the handle doins to raise the head looks damned awkward. Mine is on the side. Even this is a PITA. I surmise it would be considerably worse on the others.

Have a look at the WM16 on Warco's site, see what I mean.

New to mills myself. So don't take too much notice ..

Dave BC

I had a look at the Warco machine too. Seems pretty much the same as the 4 I posted. Except for the bigger table and the bigger price tag. I would love to be able to go for a more expensive machine, but the wallet is only that big(because I need tools too). What I dont fully understand though with such a long table, and a shorter longitudinal travel... what is the use of the longer table?  Is this just to help prevent overhang of the part on the table??

As to the tool/taper problem you mention. I was also wondering about a "middle way" of finding some slightly bigger tools to still work with a MT2/3 taper collet.....


Pffffttttt......., choices choices choices 

[Darren]

I understand you moving issues, maybe you should wait?

If poss always go for the biggest, be it MT taper tooling/holders, table size or even machines. Size does always make a bigger difference than you might realise. Mostly in stability and rigidity which will translate to tool finish.

ER25/32 have different sized collet ranges, ER32 is the most common chosen  ... 

Have a look here at the sizes http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collets-Collet-Chucks

[Divided he ad]

Wow Joe.... You sure do ask everything all at once!!!



It took me months to figure out what I would need and what would wait in the draw for many moons to get used!

When you but end mills get some slot drills in the same sizes, the 2 flute ones as opposed to the 3/4 flute ones, they enable cutting downwards as well as across, I found the difference when endmills wouldn't go down more than a mm or so without a pre-drilled hole.

Also, if the mill is small then you might find as I did that the collet chuck can take up a lot of valuable room.... I used MT3 collets for ages, the only pain is raising and lowering the head of the mill (on my mill drill it swivels!! none of your choices has that though.) Collet chucks and drill chucks are similar in length (mostly). only thing is you need to make the choice to buy all metric or all imperial tooling, MT collets do not clamp inbetween sizes!

I got quite a bit of second hand tooling at first, didn't (still don't really) have the cast for all the new bits. Sold some stuff to get the vise (vertex 4") and clamp set. You will need to fork out for a reasonable quality vise, as it's the key component to much out our work, also a way of tramming said vise would be useful!

I'm just throwing it out there cause there could be space issues? Like when You have a rotary table with a chuck on it and then the workpiece!!  (don't go and buy all those straight away!)

Just thinking about when I started is all...


I've been to the Chester warehouse in Harwarden, the 16v is quite large compared to some and seems quite well made.... Twidddled the wheels etc all had a vice feel to it, they have it in the foyer. didn't see it running though. but owned a Chester mill drill for 3 years and it's worked pretty well (should have sold it by now since I got my new one!)

Can't really comment on the others having never seen them. One thing I will say, the heavier machine does make a difference when you're taking larger cuts 

But to answer the  larger table question.... It gives the ability to hold down bigger stuff to machine, with this hobby you might just need to some day!
also you could do like I usually do. Rotary table on the left hand side and vise on the right, allowing them to be left there with enough movement left and right on the vise to work with (2-3" either side) the rotary table doesn't need much to the left if vertical and rarely outside of it's own table area if it's horizontal, so it can be right over to the left.


Hope I haven't confused you, I'm just trying to point out a few of the bits I found out when I started 

This really can be quite an expensive hobby to start off! 




Hope you have fun with whatever you choose.


Watch out for the breaking end mills too!! Best read up on climb milling....Been there done that!





Ralph.

[jim]

choices, choices!

i've got a version of the chester champion 20v (bigger than the 16v). its the biggest i could fit in to the space i've got.

Got no complaints about it, my advice would be to get the biggest you can afford/accomodate!

[Bluechip]

Z-A

Not quite sure what you mean by 'shorter longitudinal travel' on the WM16.

It does 19" 480 mm ish

http://www.warco.co.uk/productimages/documents/P53.pdf

Bit more than the 330mm or so quoted on the others.

Handy for parking me fag ends anyway ...  

Dave BC

[zeroaxe]

I understand you moving issues, maybe you should wait?

If poss always go for the biggest, be it MT taper tooling/holders, table size or even machines. Size does always make a bigger difference than you might realise. Mostly in stability and rigidity which will translate to tool finish.

ER25/32 have different sized collet ranges, ER32 is the most common chosen  ... 

Have a look here at the sizes http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collets-Collet-Chucks

Darren,

I would love to wait. But the problem is that where I am going, you dont realy find these type of machines that come up for sale. And if they do, the price is just not fair. Kind of a too much demand and not enough supply. And this causes the prices to inflate beyond realistic value. What will cost here between £500 and £1000, will cost double or more "there". I would love to buy one here and then move it there, but to convince the other half to transport something between 1.5 and 2 Tons (plus the space that it will take in the container AND the removal from the container "there")..... is just about impossible. I just managed to convince here that one of the above machines is not such a big issue 

I will be honest with you. I got a plan up my sleeve  Once "there", I plan to build me a "MultiMachine" like from here



I honestly believe it done properly, this would be a proper and sturdy machine

[zeroaxe]

Wow Joe.... You sure do ask everything all at once!!!

Sorry

When you but end mills get some slot drills in the same sizes, the 2 flute ones as opposed to the 3/4 flute ones, they enable cutting downwards as well as across, I found the difference when endmills wouldn't go down more than a mm or so without a pre-drilled hole.

Ok, I hear what you are saying. If I understand what you are saying, it makes perfect sense. I made a C-o-C of my question between the two different cutters. See below?



Am I understanding it right?

Also, if the mill is small then you might find as I did that the collet chuck can take up a lot of valuable room.... I used MT3 collets for ages, the only pain is raising and lowering the head of the mill (on my mill drill it swivels!! none of your choices has that though.) Collet chucks and drill chucks are similar in length (mostly). only thing is you need to make the choice to buy all metric or all imperial tooling, MT collets do not clamp inbetween sizes!

Are you saying that I will have to work with that(the space issue) or are you saying that there might be a way around it? 

I got quite a bit of second hand tooling at first, didn't (still don't really) have the cast for all the new bits. Sold some stuff to get the vise (vertex 4") and clamp set. You will need to fork out for a reasonable quality vise, as it's the key component to much out our work, also a way of tramming said vise would be useful!

I am keeping an open eye on eBay  But do you have a vice that you can recommend? I would love to have a Rotary table, but I dont know what size to get? Also, as you know the increase of price of a Rotary table is directly coupled to the increase in size What would be a realistic size to start with(if there is such a thing)?

I'm just throwing it out there cause there could be space issues? Like when You have a rotary table with a chuck on it and then the workpiece!!  (don't go and buy all those straight away!)

I know what you are saying. Appreciate the honest comments.

I've been to the Chester warehouse in Harwarden, the 16v is quite large compared to some and seems quite well made.... Twidddled the wheels etc all had a vice feel to it,

Not sure I know what you are saying here? Machine seems to be good. But your comment about the "vice feel".... is it good or bad?

Can't really comment on the others having never seen them. One thing I will say, the heavier machine does make a difference when you're taking larger cuts 

Isnt there a way to make the machine heavier??? 

But to answer the  larger table question.... It gives the ability to hold down bigger stuff to machine, with this hobby you might just need to some day!
also you could do like I usually do. Rotary table on the left hand side and vise on the right, allowing them to be left there with enough movement left and right on the vise to work with (2-3" either side) the rotary table doesn't need much to the left if vertical and rarely outside of it's own table area if it's horizontal, so it can be right over to the left.

This makes sense. Dave BC, what I tried to say is that the table is bigger than the Longitudinal Travel, which didnt make sense. The only thing I could think of is that the machine(table) can hold a longer/bigger part... Or like Ralph explained..., holding two things for your work...

Hope I haven't confused you, I'm just trying to point out a few of the bits I found out when I started 
This really can be quite an expensive hobby to start off! 
Hope you have fun with whatever you choose.
Watch out for the breaking end mills too!! Best read up on climb milling....Been there done that!

Ralph.

Not at all, so far the info comes at a pace that I can follow and understand, so all is good. I will read up about the different milling techniques(got any pointers where/what/books etc? .

Thanks all so far for the info.

[zeroaxe]

Here is another question.... MT2 ER32 Collet. Good or bad?

The thick end of a MT2 is 17.8 mm and the maximum holding diameter for an ER32 collet is 20mm. The tool bit or work piece is going to be stiffer than the holder, by a considerable margin. However as long as it is only lightly load it should be OK I guess. I assume this is why it is not very common to but a MT 2 shank on an ER32 collet holder, at least not for metalworking.

I dont think I sould be using end mill/Slot drills as big as 20mm often.... So the wuestion is, do I or dont I?

[Bernd]

Well now. We've got a good discussion going here. Should help out many who are seeeking info on buying a mini-mill.

ZeroAxe,

On my Grizzly, looks like the second one in your OP, I use up to 1/2" dia. two flute spiral and four flute spiral end miils. I've got a small fly cutter that will do aluminum comfortably at a depth of about .020" to .050". Drills up to 1/2" if I can fit them in.

As Joe said in his reply the MT3 would be better for tooling. I'll have to agree with that. Especially if your lathe has the same size.

Fortunatley for me I've got three mills, the Sherline, the Grizzly mini-mill and a Bridgeport. I can choose the mill I need for the job I need to do.

Bernd

[Divided he ad]

I'm Know expert Joe,

I'm just trying to let you know what I found when I started.

What size of stuff are you making BTW?


Answers...

"Vice feel"... Sorry, typo should have read Nice feel  

What you pictured is pretty much what I meant except that and end mill would do both of those slots! The slot drill will go into the material without inboard of the edge without pre-drilling.... See C-o-C.  ( I rarely take cuts of more than 2mm deep in aluminium and 1mm in steel. No specific rule, just mine! although a slot drill will drill a hole!)

The collet issue is also shown on the C-o-C. it's just something that might comeup if you get a mill with lower clearance spindle to table.



My vertex vise is very good, I know there are a few others (including Bogs, You know of Bogs? he has a 6" vertex) these are a good quality low cost range.... I say low compared to the big boys ones.... Some of those are silly money  

Rotary tables....(RT) You get what you pay for as with all, again mine is a vertex (and so is Bogs) 6" version cost me £125.00 which is now considerably more too!!  
mine is from Chester UK model HHV-150.   I will warn you though, mounting chucks to these will dramatically reduce any usable working height you have. I kept mine lower my mounting a chuck directly to the 3 T slots in the RT using a chuck with the bolt holes through the front. Other than that you would need a threaded arbour and a backplate adding upto 70mm to the height of the tool!

Isnt there a way to make the machine heavier???

Never tried.... My old Chester Champion ( http://www.chesteruk.net/store/champion_mill.htm ) mill was 135Kg if you make them much heavier then the bench would have to be proper reinforced! That said my new mill is like the "Eagle 25" that's 200Kg  



Milling techniques... Well, I started to learn the hard way.... "Duck and cover!"  shattering end mills and trying to flycut with a square edged tool  (I didn't know!!    )

My advise, search the forums for "End mill", "slot drill",  "fly cutter", "flycutting"  and very important to get figured out "climb milling"  Be sure to put them into a search just as I have them writen in "  "  else you'll get all sorts of silly stuff!  I'm start on this forum first, I know there's a great deal of info about all these on here  

Books.... There are hundreds!! I'm sure that members will tell you hundreds of titles of their favourites.... I can't read books very well.... Not illiterate you understand, my brain switches off after about a page  "literature induced narcolepsy" follows.... Works with the long posts like I write too!! Not while I write them though  





Right, I've not proof read this too much..... If I've typo'd again I'm sorry.... Hopefully you can figure it out?





Hope that's all been worth writing??  I do go on at times!!





Ralph.

[zeroaxe]

I'm now expert Joe,

I'm just trying to let you know what I found when I started.

And this is where I am now 

What size of stuff are you making BTW?

Like I mentioned, it will mostly be tools for my lathe for now. And then it could be like something like a triple tree for a motorcycle. And hopefully at some point I will have enough skillz to tackle a mini V-Twin like on this site

Answers...

"Vice feel"... Sorry, typo should have read Nice feel 

ok, cool. I am at ease now

What you pictured is pretty much what I meant except that and end mill would do both of those slots! The slot drill will go into the material without inboard of the edge without pre-drilling.... See C-o-C.  ( I rarely take cuts of more than 2mm deep in aluminium and 1mm in steel. No specific rule, just mine! although a slot drill will drill a hole!)

Ok, I get what you are saying. So I will add some of each to the list like you said!

The collet issue is also shown on the C-o-C. it's just something that might comeup if you get a mill with lower clearance spindle to table.

The C-o-C is just the ticket to explain. A pic = 1000words. Thanks! So I take it that it might be a good idea also at one point to get 'straight' MT2 Collets to increase tool-to-table clearance. I will then get a MT3-MT2 reducer sleeve so that I can use the MT2 ER Collet in the lathe too. My above post still pose an important question though. Is a MT2 ER32 Collet a good idea or not?(when using a tool bigger than the max taper dia. ?)

My vertex vise is very good, I know there are a few others (including Bogs, You know of Bogs? he has a 6" vertex) these are a good quality low cost range.... I say low compared to the big boys ones.... Some of those are silly money 

I know Bogs from the Chester forum. Indirectly he sent me here Vertex eh? Hmmm, I will google it. In the mean time, where did you get yours from?

Rotary tables....(RT) You get what you pay for as with all, again mine is a vertex (and so is Bogs) 6" version cost me £125.00 which is now considerably more too!! 
mine is from Chester UK model HHV-150.   I will warn you though, mounting chucks to these will dramatically reduce any usable working height you have. I kept mine lower my mounting a chuck directly to the 3 T slots in the RT using a chuck with the bolt holes through the front. Other than that you would need a threaded arbour and a backplate adding upto 70mm to the height of the tool!

I sit here with the Chester catalogue and am looking at the HHV-150. £145-58incl VAT. AND.... I noticed in bold it says that the HHV-150 includes deviding plates I think that is a good buy, no? Will try and call them on Tuesday.

Isnt there a way to make the machine heavier???

Never tried.... My old Chester Champion ( http://www.chesteruk.net/store/champion_mill.htm ) mill was 135Kg if you make them much heavier then the bench would have to be proper reinforced! That said my new mill is like the "Eagle 25" that's 200Kg 

I also looked at the Eagle 25. But two things struck me. The price is just out of my budget(either I get this mill and 'suffer' tooling loss. Or get the slightly cheaper one and clap it out with some tools) and the round pillar. I got the idea through reading of mills etc that dovetail is far more superior than round column???

Also looking at the pics in the catalogue, the only obvious place that I can see extra weigh is in the base? I cant see other places where there could be extra weight(unlike than with women  ). So if one bolts the machine down properly that should help some, no?

Milling techniques... Well, I started to learn the hard way.... "Duck and cover!"  shattering end mills and trying to flycut with a square edged tool  (I didn't know!!    )

My advise, search the forums for "End mill", "slot drill",  "fly cutter", "flycutting"  and very important to get figured out "climb milling"  Be sure to put them into a search just as I have them writen in "  "  else you'll get all sorts of silly stuff!  I'm start on this forum first, I know there's a great deal of info about all these on here 

I will do my research, thanks for the pointers

Books.... There are hundreds!! I'm sure that members will tell you hundreds of titles of their favourites.... I can't read books very well.... Not illiterate you understand, my brain switches off after about a page   "literature induced narcolepsy" follows.... Works with the long posts like I write too!! Not while I write them though 

"literature induced narcolepsy"  You had me in stitches there!!! I saw something on Amazon about complete milling course or such like that looked interesting.....

Right, I've not proof read this too much..... If I've typo'd again I'm sorry.... Hopefully you can figure it out?
Hope that's all been worth writing??  I do go on at times!!
Ralph.

Not a problem. I normaly figure things out "in text" of postings. It has been worth the writing, thanks! I am learning as I get along...

I dont know, but it seems like I am kinda leaning towards the Chester Champion 16V.....  If only it had MT3.....

[Divided he ad]

Again typo in the first line     "I'm know expert!"   not at writing that's for sure   

Your projects should be no bother with these choices then, just think of the biggest thing you have to make and aim to get that onto the table in all configurations.... Then you might get the correct choice!? 


There is nothing wrong with the ER range of chucks, most of us have them I think? I'm just pointing out (in the C-o-C) that there will be a loss of available workpiece height. it can cause issues. Better that you are informed early 

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/mt_collets.htm   MT collets limited sizes in MT2

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/er_collets.htm   ER collets limited to ER25 (due to the taper) and max tool shank size of 16mm..... I've not got any tooling bigger than 16mm shank. So I'd not care about that! I'm not sure if they do an ER32 with a MT2 taper? I haven't looked for it.


If you re-read the bit about the rotary table I said Chester UK was the supplier I used    The dividing plates could come in very useful,(gears and accurate cutting) that said I've not used mine yet... Not got aroundtuit! 


Yep, the round pillar causes issues, you lose what they call "register" when you raise or lower the head, basically it spins on the column and you lose all your measurements!
It's workable though... I've used one for 2 years+ and so have many other people.  Still, dovetailed columns save some hassle.

Weight.... Trust me, there's a great deal in the head of the machine on both the Champion and the Eagle. The motors are massive, and all that metal inside the head weighs a bit too!

 
Stitches.... I'm serious    I always nod off when reading.... I got books that cost over £200.00 and can barely read them! Thankfully they have pictures! 


The MT2 thing.... Don't get too hung up on that, I know for a fact that Bogs has much of his tooling on MT2 tapers with Myford threads on them so he can swap them machine to machine, (you can find threads showing it somewhere?)  it doesn't stop him from making all sorts of awesome gadgetry, in fact he did it to make life easier and get greater accuracy!  And I doubt he often goes above a 16mm cutter shank either! (we were discussing re-sizing the shanks on some cutters the other week  )








I'd best go and do the post I came on to do now!! that was about 2 hours ago    I have been wandering the Chester site and uploading pic's to photobucket though 






Ralph.

[zeroaxe]

Now this is one thing I would like to get.... a Milling/Copying machine. All for a mere €250!!! But to move this thing at the later stage, my wifey will have a coronary.....

[Darren]

What's this wife business ....