Author Topic: New mill question  (Read 12289 times)

Offline No1_sonuk

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New mill question
« on: January 24, 2010, 08:47:52 AM »
I'm looking at getting a milling machine, and due to money and bench-space issues I have my eye on these:

Warco Minimll/drill
http://www.warco.co.uk/Mini-Mill-Drill-EBFC17B0BF.aspx

Chester Conquest
http://www.chesteruk.net/store/conquest_mill.htm

Both have similar specs, including the new, larger table size and travel.  The Warco has 2 handles on the long axis.

The Chester has a gas spring, and the Warco has a torsion bar, which brings me to the main point of the topic:
I've seen several comments about people not liking the torsion bar suspension setups.  Is this just a personal thing, or is there a real engineering reason behind it?

Offline Harry Eales

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2010, 09:20:04 AM »
I'm looking at getting a milling machine, and due to money and bench-space issues I have my eye on these:

Warco Minimll/drill
http://www.warco.co.uk/Mini-Mill-Drill-EBFC17B0BF.aspx

Chester Conquest
http://www.chesteruk.net/store/conquest_mill.htm

Both have similar specs, including the new, larger table size and travel.  The Warco has 2 handles on the long axis.

The Chester has a gas spring, and the Warco has a torsion bar, which brings me to the main point of the topic:
I've seen several comments about people not liking the torsion bar suspension setups.  Is this just a personal thing, or is there a real engineering reason behind it?

Hello sonuk,

This is really a 'no brainer'. The Conquest Mill is, despite it's name, a Chinese X2 Mini mill. Sold by a dozen or more companies around the world including Britain. Another British supplier is Axminster Tools.

I have one of these myself, it's not perfect, but like any other machine tool it can be improved upon. The grear drive is made of plastic. The first time you get a tool jamming or locks, the gear train strips. The way around this, is to install a Stirling Steele Belt Drive Conversion Kit. If a tool jams then the belt slips. No problem. It's far more flexible and gives a greater speed range. Available direct from Stirling Steele or Little Machine Shop, both in the USA. You will have to pay import duty on this item.  Just type in the names into Google and you will find their respective websites.

As for Airspring v Torsion Bar, mine came with the torsion bar. I don't find it at all useful and I am busy making a dual Airspring conversion, out of gas springs recovered from my local car scrapyard, they're used for holding open the tailgates of hatchback or estate cars, take a couple of the stud mounts as well, they come in handy when mounting the springs on the mill. Cost a couple of quid or less.

Remember, with any machine the initial outlay is only half what it will cost you to set it up with a good machine vice, boring head, collet holder or individual collets and cutting tools. Ignore the cheap so called machine vice allegedly offered for free by Chester, it's rubbish
You will fing that a 3" precision machine swivel base vice to be a real necessity, but you don't get any change out of about £100.00. Then there's rotary tables with three and four jaw chucks and of course a tailstock to match. Tipped milling tools also cost an arm and a leg, but they're worth it.

There's far more tooling available for the X2 Mill than the Warco model. I know of no belt drive or many other accessories being available for the Warco machine. Still you pays your money and takes your pick. The choice is yours.

Harry

Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2010, 12:32:34 PM »
Thanks, Harry.

Being a lathe owner (A Chester DB7VS), I'm well aware of the machine/tooling ratio, and the virtues if indexable tools. ;)
One of the reasons I'm favouring the Warco at the moment is the cost.  The Warco, including VAT and Delivery is less than the Chester with no VAT or delivery.
Another is the second handle on the long axis - would save A LOT of effort fitting power drive to have the lead screw ready-extended.

BTW, if you look closely enough, you'll see that the Warco is also "X2-pattern".

Offline GArat

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2010, 02:40:24 PM »
Hi sonuk
I had the similar mill as Warco is and i used it for five years...Is not a trascendental machine but honest!!! The big cons are the plastic gears...very fragile You have to use all kindeness as you have entering over the metal..or the disaster will occur...I had a Einhell brand mill...
X2 mill is made in China by SIEG the Warco is made in China but from a different factory...

Offline CrewCab

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2010, 04:28:01 PM »
I had an X2 and loved it, the only reason I sold it was due to acquiring a much bigger mill through a friend, what sort of machining are you wanting to do, if it's all going to be non ferrous then the X2 will eat it, steel you just have to take light cuts ................ very capable little machine in my experience.

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Offline John Rudd

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2010, 04:31:43 PM »
I too have the Warco look-a-like mill although mine came from Chester....


Yes they do strip gears and yes the belt conversion is a must do...I went further than that on mine and replaced the single row ball bearings to taper rollers...Result a much quieter machine which is able to take radial loads better than the original having beefier bearings..
Be aware that the Belt convserion may not fit the Warco unit. I used the plans written and devised by Jerry Rollet, which were designed for the X2 clones. I had to modify the pulley bore for the main spindle because of a difference in diameter.

Mine has the Torsion spring but has in no way detracted from the performance of the mill..

The speed control board in mine is made by KB Electronics of Florida, some of the other clones have a different board which seems to be prone to failure...Why this is, is anybody's guess...

I'm reliably informed that the Chester offering is not the same as the Warco mill. The original Chester offering which I have was their original Conquest.
The unit they offer now differs in a number of ways:
A gas strut instead of the Torsion Spring
A different housing arrangement for the controls
Single handle for X feed

I'm not sure if the table is smaller on the Chester version... :scratch:
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 04:34:50 PM by John Rudd »
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2010, 05:05:55 PM »
Most of the work I want to do is on aluminium.

Offline CrewCab

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2010, 05:27:21 PM »
Most of the work I want to do is on aluminium.

Then I would think any X2 variant will be just fine, go for the package which offers best value for money  :thumbup:

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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 08:03:17 AM »
Thanks for the input guys (and welcome GArat ).

I ordered the Warco - time to watch my credit card weep again.
It's only just recovered from the lathe.  :lol:

Offline CrewCab

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2010, 01:54:37 PM »
One of the best improvements for the X2 is a belt drive conversion, you can either buy one ready made or make one yourself, there are several threads on here where the guys have made their own ............

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1245.0

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1255.0

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1393.0

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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 03:11:52 PM »
Thanks for those CrewCab.

I now have a crate in my workshop.  :D

Umm.  How does one get the steel straps off?  :scratch:

Offline Bernd

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 04:51:17 PM »
Umm.  How does one get the steel straps off?  :scratch:

 Dynamite ?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :hammer: Oh sorry. Somebody reading this might just try it.  :wack:

Bernd
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Offline CrewCab

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2010, 06:47:45 PM »
Or if your out of Dynamite ........... Tin Snips  :wack:

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Offline andyf

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2010, 08:18:38 PM »
Once you have got it off the crate, don't throw the strapping away. The stuff round a crate I got from Warco has come in useful as thickish (around 0.5 mm/20 thou) shims, an improvised springy detent to engage a changewheel when graduating a dial and (I blush at this point) crude thin parallels.

Enjoy the milling machine.

Andy

PS Nearly forgot - fishing out a sock which escaped into the the bottom of of a chest of non-removeable drawers.


Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline dsquire

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2010, 09:49:09 PM »
Andyf

 :offtopic:
How do you get non removable drawers or is the sock jamming it and keeping it from opening? If you reach inside and feel there is probably a catch on the back side of the drawer back or just inside the drawer front at the top on the case. You might try taking a mirror and a flashlight (torch) and try to get a look. I just can't see how they can't be removed either that or I am about to learn something new.  :lol: :lol:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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Never let it rest,
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Offline dsquire

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2010, 09:54:15 PM »

I now have a crate in my workshop.  :D

Umm.  How does one get the steel straps off?  :scratch:

I would come over and help you cut those straps off but I just checked and they haven't got the bridge over the big pond finished yet.  :lol: :lol:

Hope you enjoy the machine when you do get it unpacked and sorted out.  :ddb: :ddb:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
Good, better, best.
Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best

Offline andyf

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Re: New mill question
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2010, 04:31:30 AM »
Quote
Don: How do you get non removable drawers.....?


Easy. You buy fancy bedroom furniture with drawers on filing cabinet type runners, and then spend 20 years trying unsuccessfully to find out how these are released to get the drawers out. Some of the items now have big holes trepanned in the back, to get an arm in.

I know, I know ..... :offtopic:

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short