The Sajo mill is here

[Trion]

Minor update, a 5 pack of LRV08 batteries was just ordered from HongKong for 3,45$ including shipping

Thanks! A very skilled engine builder I know of, once said "The guys who put this together weren't any smarter than you." That about sums up the attitude he has to things, and he is one of those guys people go to when everything else has failed. I'm not that smart..

Selling, who's talking about that? Well, I guess it's allways good to have as an option.

If you go to cdco machinery - all sorts of die makers tools - R8, 5C, 3C, ER, MT Taper Collets & Accessories. Second to the bottom, you find the kit

[dsquire]

Trion

I like the way you are going about cleaning, repairing and setting up your mill. If it doesn't work, take it apart watching how the pieces were placed. Figure out how it is supposed to work and why it doesn't then remedy the situation with adjustment, replaced or repaired parts.

Finesse will usually win every time. A BIG hammer is not usually the answer. I also like the way you put the anti-seize compound on the threads. If you keep the mill for a long time and ever have tear it down a down again you will be thankful.

I enjoy watching this so will be following along on future posts.

While I was posting this you made another post so will comment on that here. With work like you are doing here you will be "one of those guys people go to when everything else has failed".

Cheers 

Don

[Bernd]

I don't see why they won't work. I do believe that each one of those collets will take a range of sizes. Just don't force a tool bigger that the dimension of the holder. Also the other way around. Don't squeeze it beyond what it was designed to hold and you shouls be Ok.

Bernd

[andyf]

Trion,
I think metric ER collets are much easier to use with metric tooling. My ER25s are metric, holding 16 down to 15mm, 15 down to 14mm etc. If I slide a 6mm shank into the 6 down to 5mm collet, it will hold in place while I tighten up the closing nut. If I put a 1/4" shank in the 7 - 6mm collet, a third hand is needed to hold there while I tighten up. In the the set you linked to, each collet shrinks by 1/16"/1.59mm, so (for example) you would have to use a 1/2" collet for a 12mm shank and a 7/16" one for a 10mm shank - that one would have to shrink down about 1.1mm to get a grip. 

Gloster Tooling in the UK do some reasonably priced metric sets - http://www.glostertooling.co.uk/Download/Engineers%20tool%20catalogue.pdf and go to page 22. Collet chucks are on earlier pages.

Of course, if you will only be using tools with fairly large shanks, you could buy a few individual collets in the larger sizes.

Andy

[Trion]

Thanks for the kind words
Very good point there Andy, I would never have thought of that before I was standing there, short of one arm.. GlosterTooling had quite a few interresting things, but were a bit pricier than cdco machinery. Will have to consider that one a bit..

Yesterday I went to the local paint shop and bought some cheap metal paint. The seller couldn't guarantee me that it would last in oil and coolant, so i bought a bit to make a test.


The color doesn't match perfectly, but we'll se when it gets a few more layers and dries properly. Then I need to buy some coolant and mix it up, before i lay the test pieces in it for a couple of days

[Darren]

I use garage floor paint, easy to apply, tough and oil resistant.

Use a small foam roller and not a brush to apply.

[Rob.Wilson]

Hi Trion

Very interesting thread , nice big mill  you have there 

Good tip Darren  your right floor piant is great for machines


Cheers Rob

[Darren]

Long thread but lots of info 

Paint is at the end

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1651.0

[Trion]

Thanks for the replies! Nice thread Darren, I've read it before, but I had forgotten all about the garage floor paint, I wonder if it's possible to get the paint in mint green

[Trion]

This week, I've been to quite a few paint shops, but every time i say coolant liquid the sellers get the 100 mile stare, before they go searching and eventually dig out a barely used catalog from the bottom of a pile. Then a slightly evil grin comes to their face, as they look through the pages and discover the price. Cheapest so far is 700NOK per liter, equals £70 or 120$. And that is not including the 25% VAT, nor is it the exact same color as the machine.

I have also asked for garage floor paint, but was replied that it was like going to an auto shop and asking to buy a car. After a bit of back and forth, they found something that could suit the application, but they didn't have it in mint green, shocking...

So I guess I'm back to square one, with my cheap single component paint. Therefore I arranged a test
Painted test piece, meets jar of old coolant and dirt


I'm going to let it stay this way for a couple of days, if the paint still sticks I'm going to use the cheapo paint to paint the worst spots around the machine. Some day, I might buy a lot of polyurethane or epoxy paint and paint the whole machine..



During the week I have also gotten myself a new locking key


So I began cleaning the parts for the head, and started the assembly


Mounted the shaft and put in the new key


Handle driving mechanism


Handle dial


Mounted and started assembly of fine feed mechanism


Since I haven't finished the fine feed handle, I didn't continue the assembly here..


Instead, I moved on to the spring side


After a bit of adjustment back and forth, the spring sat in it's place


But the quill is not moving lightly enough for the spring to be able to retract it by iself, so I lubed it up with WD40 before I left..

[DICKEYBIRD]

Fantastic thread Trion, I'm luv'n every minute.  Better than the movies I have to watch with the wife.

Take a look at CTC tools in Hong Kong. http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-Tool-%26-Work-Holding/searchpath/5294/start/82/total/147/Categories  I just bought a bunch of ER32 & ER16 collets & chucks and the quality looks great.  I can't comment on the runout yet as it's too cold in my shop to stay very long.  I've heard from other purchasers that it's OK.

The prices are obviously VERY good.  The shipping is higher than I'm accustomed to in the US but they are in Hong Kong after all.

[Darren]

Yes great write up, I love to see old machinery fettled and nurtured 

[Bernd]

Very nice write up.

As far as the paint is concerned I wouldn't get to excited about getting paint on the machine. The unpainted spots will give it character.  Beside it looks great just cleaned up.

Ya, I know some people just love shiny bright things. 

Bernd

[Space Fan]

Absolutely great work.  If I were to put paint on this fine machine, I'd use spot and glaze puty to even out the chipped areas. The stuff is great for feathering the rough edges too. Ifyou put it on with flexable plastic you can nearly do away with sanding and you can get into the curved areas.

Fantastic Mill!

[Stilldrillin]

Very nice write up.

As far as the paint is concerned I wouldn't get to excited about getting paint on the machine. The unpainted spots will give it character.  Beside it looks great just cleaned up.

Ya, I know some people just love shiny bright things. 

Bernd

Wot Bernd said........

I love seeing characterful, well maintained, accurate machines. 

Don`t do shiney...... No one machines with the polished finish! 

David D

[Trion]

Thanks for the kind words

If you'd have seen my car, you would know that I like things to be nice and shiny, but it takes time. For now I have set my priorities on making some chips

DICKEYBIRD: ctctools looks to be a very reasonably priced place to buy things for a home shop. I am already drooling on the BT 40 - ER32 chuck, but I also noticed that they have MT3 and MT2 chucks for collets aswell. Conveniently my lathe tailstock is MT2 and the spindle has a taper reducer to MT3. It would be a good step in the direction of interchangeability between the machines. I see a "poor mans lathe collet chuck" coming up on the horizon!
When you get around to measure the runout of the collets, I would really appreciate if you would share that information

Space Fan: "spot and glaze puty" - I googled it, is it the same as what one uses for cars? Not filler, but what's used for deeper dents? In my experience it is weak and brittle, didn't think it would survive on a machine in use, or am I wrong?

[Bernd]

Trion,

In the place I used to work they had a paint shop for painting the machines for the customers. They used the that stuff to fill in bad spots on the machine. Then sand it smooth and paint over. You just need to make sure that there is no oil or any kind of dirt were you are going to put it. It's the same procedure as would be used on a car body. Metal is metal the putty dosen't know any difference.

I'm sure Space Fan will chime in and bring the finer points to the forfront.

Bernd

[Trion]

Well, then my assumptions were wrong. Will have to try out the putty when the day to begin a proper restoration comes. Thanks for the quick reply

Minor update today, had nearly two hours of shop time, so I decided to finish the hand wheel for the fine feed mechanism. I have had some time to plunder about how I want it to look, and I decided for paralell angled surfaces, and a flat on which I can drill a hole and mount a small handle on a later occasion. So of it went..




Bearing in mind that I'm still very new to turning aswell, i tried turning the outer surface in the same setup, and had thought to just flip it over and cut the rest of afterwards. But that would have looked bad, I wanted one clean cut on the outer surface, so I mounted it on its mounting shaft


Just by using some washer and a M8 bolt


Not the best assembly, regarding cylindricity or wobbling. As you can see, the tailstock center is far of center on the bolt


But it got me going, so I ended up with this. The edge between the angled surface and the flat looks a bit ugly, but I couldn't come up with an easy solution to rounden the edge without damaging any of the other surfaces..


The rear surface, with the same angle as the front


All assembled
It is a bit too smooth, I might do something about it when I have the mill running. But for now, it's ok!


On another note, it might be a bit small. I'll have to see how it feels, when I begin actually using the machine

[Space Fan]

Space Fan: "spot and glaze puty" - I googled it, is it the same as what one uses for cars? Not filler, but what's used for deeper dents? In my experience it is weak and brittle, didn't think it would survive on a machine in use, or am I wrong?

Trion,
Yes any quick drying surface repair product for automotive will work.  It should hold up under use as it'll be locked in by paint.  Proper surface prep is all that is needed.  In fact, many machines are slathered in the stuff right up to the ground surfaces. Makes for a nice smooth look.

But this mill you have would look great covered in swarf and coolant!  Paint and finish is a lesser concern I'm sure.
Great work on the refit!
Barry

[Trion]

Space Fan: I would never have thought that! Will have to give it a try sometime, maybe on the sprare vertical head? hmm

Yesterday I stated on making the quill handle


I decided to make this in steel, as I want it to last and be able to take a bit of abuse. So gatheret a couple of suiting pieces, and drew up a small sketch


Mounted the fortunate piece in the lathe, and roughed of a bit of material. The chip breaker on my inserts (which i believe are made for a milling cutter) is practically absent, but I liked the color of the swarf


Some finishing cuts later


Then I made the internal hole, before i removed it from the chuck and went to see if my measurement were correct. Ofcourse they weren't, so I would have ended up with a pretty hard press fit if I were to do it this way.


So out came the 4 jaw.I got tired of turning the jaws in and out, so I got myself some help


Then aligned the piece in the chuck


before I opened up the internal diameter with a very light cut with an internal HSS tool


Well pleased with the result, I moved on, and turned the part around. This time it was hard to get the DI shaft down to the workpiece, so I mounted an elongation. A bit of back and forth, before I ended up with a couple of hundreds millimeters runout


Turned down the other piece, but got greedy and ended up braking a couple of tips of my carbides on the edge made by the water jet


I decided to make the handle similar to the locking handle on the other side of the head, so I gave the part a 20degree chamfer. By then, all my small triangle carbide bits were worn out, so I'll have to take the finishing passes with HSS..


That's how far I've come 'til now. More progress coming over the weekend

[Bernd]

I see you've got machining down pretty good Trion.

Looks like you'll have a very nice looking mill when all done with the little fixes.

Bernd

[Trion]

Thanks

Unfortunately, I didn't get a lot done on the machine this weekend, although I had all saturday. Most of it was spent on other projects, like mounting new shock absorbers on the daily driver, and chatting with friends. But chatting can be a good thing. By the looks of it, I might just have scored a monstrous machining vise. But I'm not celebrating until it stands on the milling table..

All that I have to report, is that i ground up a HSS tool as described in many threads around here. I also gave the part a quick pass, before I had to call it a day..

[AdeV]

That's a nice mill, and I can only echo other's sentiments when I say - that's some fine repair/remedial work you're doing

The only comment I'd make about your swarf; that really blue stuff means you're running your cutter really hot; that's going to kill HSS off in no time, dunno about carbide, but I think the fact you've worn them out may be related? Anyway... certainly if you're using HSS bits, I think you should either slow the feed/speed down, or take lighter cuts, or use coolant - your edges should last longer then. But your swarf won't look quite so nice, mind...

[Trion]

Thanks, It's a learn as I go along. I have a project update laying on the camera, will post it when I get home

I have made blue chips with HSS a few times, but not often. It allways ends with me swearing and heading for the grinder..
Those chips that lay in the background are remains from last time, when I used carbide. The carbide inserts that I have, are very strange and not actually suited for use in the tool holder that I have. If you study them closely, you'll see that they have strange looking chip breakers that taper away from the cutting edge. The inserts are good for surfacing, but turning is a completely different story.. The shape of my tool holders are not contributing to that either. It seems that both my left and right hand carbide tool holders are made for surfacing when turning towards the chuck..
But you'r right, I was running the cutter too hot. I'm hoping to get hold of some coolant during the week, should help a bit with that matter.

On another note, the HSS tool shown on the picture didn't work too well. I was getting a lot of vibrations and quite wide cuts with the big nose radius. Still need to learn some more about grinding HSS, I guess

[Trion]

The promised update

Finished turning the handle mount


Test fitted it on the mill


Drilled a 7mm hole for a M8 set screw. Lacking a centre finder, I did it the flintstone way and just swung the drill back and forth (it can swing on the shaft it's standing on), slowly lowering the quill until it just touched.


Then I turned the part around and aligned it, to drill the hole for the handle. Again, flintstone..


But it seemed to work and both the holes got drilled


Then I tapped the set screw hole to M8 and the handle hole to M10, before I fitted it on the mill


If you look at the previous pictures you notice that its only a "pipe" with a through hole on which this is mounted to. To avoid the handle from spinning on the "pipe" i screwed the set screw into the pipe's through hole. But then there would be nothing to tighten the screw up against, so I inserted a suiting piece of round stock into the "pipe" and tightened the screw against it. Sort of..



Next up was beginning to make the handle, so I found some steel rod and started turning it's length to get a nice looking handle


But after several passes at various speeds and very low feed, the surface finish still was quite rough. My interpretation is that the material seems quite hard as the chips "crumble" of instead of spinning into a fine coil. Not sure if I'll get some other steel and make a new handle or try to salvage this one..


This was at about 700rpm, 0,1mm cut and the slowest feed possible..


I'm thinking of sanding down the handle, just for the looks of it, but it will be a bit of work before it's going to look ok..