Author Topic: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool  (Read 13661 times)

GrahamC

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Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« on: December 31, 2009, 04:43:30 PM »
For the longest time I have used nothing a HSS cut off / parting tool and have never had any real problems. That is until I was working some titanium a couple of months ago and ever since the HSS parting blade has just never been the same requiring seemingly constant resharpening and touching up with a stone.

To be fair the HSS steel parting blade mounted in a AXA QCTP holder had always worked very well and after a sharpening or touching up would without so much as whimper part of leaded steel, CRS, 4140, brass and aluminum. The constant resharpening become a bit of a chore.

I had read of many having a go with carbide insert cut off tools and all to a one with very high praise for their new found bit of tooling.

This sold me but finding the right cut off tool was quite an adventure in reading, asking questions and poking around the internet. There where the wide thin bars which tool an insert which just slide in and required either a special holder or a holder which in turn was held in a regular tool holder. In either case these all seemed too big for any of my AXA size holders and on the expensive side. There where also insert holder that had 1/2" shanks which also fit a regular AXA size hold and these seemed to be the choice but the maximum recommended size to cut off was generally on the smaller side and usually less one inch.  I do a lot of work with 1 to 1-1/2" stock so I set these aside for the time being as well.

The local "toy store" Busy Bee Tools (kind of like a cross between Grizzly and Harbour Freight) started to carry some of the newer offerings by Glanze. Now Glanze is an import brand as most will know but not from China but rather from India. I have several Glanze lathe cutting tools already and their quality is usually quite good - generally speaking, good fit and finish. The store was now carrying one of the Glanze brand cut off tools (see the first photo). This design was very typical of what you might find offered by Iscar or Kennametal and used a readily available style insert (GTN I think, can't find my notes but something like that). So I bought one. It comes with the holder that in turn is held in standard AXA holder and overall fit and finish are quite good.

However, I did not like the way it sat in any of my standard AXA holder (see photo 2). It did not sit flat (partially a problem with the AXA holder) nor did it sit tight up against the AXA holder. In any case the parting blade itself is quite a ways of center and not sitting flat or tight up against AXA holder is just poor and not for me - it looked like it was asking to not be very rigid and start to chatter just when you least expected. I returned the tool unused and continued my search.

Aloris themselves make a couple of AXA size holders to take this style of cut off tool blade directly AXA-77 is one such holder. Aloris also sell the blades and the holders are compatible with other brands of similar design and size. I decided to bit the bullet, spend the cash and something I know will be of excellent quality and of which I will never be sorry to have bought. Made a few phone calls, found a couple of sources, buying in Canada was out of the question - at least double the US price, and the couple of US sources I called would gladly sell me what I wanted but they would only ship via UPS.  UPS! No way, I will not accept anything shipped by UPS from the US to Canada. UPS charges an arm and a leg for "customs clearance" plus taxes plus... I would be better off buying in Canada.

Disappointed I starting looking again for a couple of other sources when I made happy accidental discovery.  Iscar makes cut off bars specifically to replace HSS cut off tools. Instead of the bar needing to sit level in order to ensure the proper relief angles for the insert they are instead made to sit at a 4 or 5 degree angle from the horizontal - guess what anglethe  AXA cut off tool hold the HSS blade at - 4 degrees! (at least the AXA size).

http://www.iscar.com/Ecat/familyHDR.asp/fnum/376/app/51/mapp/TG/GFSTYP/M/type/1/lang/EN

The problem was the width of the smallest blade I could find is 17mm - a bit too wide to fit a holder which takes 1/2" blades. Not a problem - just cut it down in size to fit.

So, I bought one - and ISCAR SGFS 4-17-2 (4 degree 17mm wide 2mm thick inserts).

Once I recieved the bar and inserts it was a matter of an hours work with a dremel cut off wheel, a bit of work on the grinder and presto - one modified insert holder made to work with the AXA cut off tool holder.  The metal the ISCAR bar is made of is very hard, a hack saw would only scratch it hence the cut off wheel and grinder work.

Photo three shows the original ISCAR SGFS 4-17-2 bar and Photo four shows the modified bar mounted in the AXA cut off tool holder.

Tests where just great - ran the lathe at 550 rpm and it just sliced through a piece of 1" leaded steel and the same for a piece of 1.25" 1144 stress proof and the finish of end of pieces was considerably better than I ever got with HSS. I could probably have run the leaded steel even faster, with the HSS for that size of steel I would run about half that speed.

I'm sold.

And so ends my last little project for 2009. Seasons Greetings to all and best wishes for yourself, family and friends and may the New Year be prosperous.


cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 04:45:15 PM by GrahamC »

Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 09:57:01 AM »
Nice write up Graham.

I've seen the tools on the net and in magazines, but have never had one in hand. So I have some questions.

What holds the insert in the end of the tool, friction or is there a set screw? How do you know if it's in square in the holder?

Thanks.

Bernd
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GrahamC

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 01:21:45 PM »

What holds the insert in the end of the tool, friction or is there a set screw?


The holders go by several names "Self Grip" is one. The inserts simply slide in place - the inserts have rounded grooves top and bottom that fit matching rounded parts on the bar itself. The inserts can be easily slide into place and until you actually use the cut off tool can be easily pulled out. Once you use the tool to make a cut the insert will be forced back ever so slightly and the holder will grip the insert rather well. The tool L shaped hex key like thing that is usually included with these bars is really a tool to allow you to pry out the insert when needed. The bar grips the insert because of the angles of the tool and matching angles on the insert. A pretty neat trick actually; before I had the chance to play around with one of these I wasn't just certain how the insert stayed in place and didn't fall out.



 How do you know if it's in square in the holder?


By eye and I also checked with a square.

Generally, these cut off tools are made to be mounted level (ie not at an angle as in the AXA cut off holder I have). I had considered getting one of the larger ones that you will frequently see on eBay and cut it to size - length, width and preserve the same relative cutting angle as if was mounted level, possibly even getting two out of one large holder. I was seeing these things on eBay all the time and some rather inexpensively. But wouldn't you know, when I went looking for one I couldn't find anything suitable and then quite by chance I stumbled across the ISCAR blade that was designed to fit a cut off tool holder as I have (at an angle) but just a wee bit wide. I thought it would be a simple matter to cut down the blade to size but was surprised how hard the steel was. I am kind of glad I didn't find a much larger one and tried to cut that one down. I am sure if I had I would have managed but it would have involved a lot more fussing and probably some cussing as well.

cheers, Graham

Offline Xldevil

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 02:01:29 PM »
Hello.
I got that parting tool made by Glanze too and the insert is named GTN-2.
http://www.glanze.com/
Using the genuine holder it came with from Chronos LTD,it does a good job on my Myford.
Regards,Ralph




« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 02:06:29 PM by Xldevil »

GrahamC

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 02:38:38 PM »
Good day Ralph,

I am glad the Glanze cut off tool is working well for you. It is well made with good fit and finish.

The holder however just did not fit my AXA QCTP tool holder very well and for the price I wasn't going to spend the time to make it fix the way I wanted. So, I went a slightly different route.  I could have modified the Glanze blade to work as I had done to the ISCAR, that would have been another option but I flipped a coin and went the way I did.

I buy from Chronos from time to time for small bits that are hard to get on this side of the Atlantic. But I have noticed that the cost of shipping has gone up quite a bit recently. That is unfortunate as Chronos (and RDG to name another) have some interesting items. 

cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada

Offline Bernd

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2010, 05:37:18 PM »
Thanks Graham. I thought it might be friction and the force when cutting.

I kind of worded the square question wrong. I meant how do you know if the insert is inserted squarely in the holder?

Bernd
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Offline boatmadman

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 06:35:19 PM »
In case you didnt know, Chronos has an ebay presence in uk, look for the trader named pinvice, there are some good discounts to be had compared to the chronos website.

Ian
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GrahamC

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 08:35:47 PM »
Thanks Graham. I thought it might be friction and the force when cutting.

I kind of worded the square question wrong. I meant how do you know if the insert is inserted squarely in the holder?

Bernd

the insert can only be put in square - the insert has a concave rounded top and bottom edge, the holder blade a matching convex edge; can't be anything but square.

Incidentally, the included angle between the top and bottom edge of the insert and the matching angle of blade put it in the class of self holding taper, like your morse taper sockets.

cheers, Graham

GrahamC

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2010, 08:37:28 PM »
In case you didnt know, Chronos has an ebay presence in uk, look for the trader named pinvice, there are some good discounts to be had compared to the chronos website.

Ian

Thanks for pointing that out Ian. I have in fact purchased from Chronos in that manner - the item price is a wee bit higher than the web site price because of the eBay costs but the postage is often times less than that calculated on the web site. I always check it both ways to take advantage of the best price.

cheers, Graham

Offline HS93

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2010, 08:53:21 PM »
after reading this post, I have  bought one on there ebay site last night as it is post free and there shop delivery charges can be a bit high, also there on line shop was closed over Christmas anyway, not that I am in a rush for it,

Peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

Offline Xldevil

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2010, 04:43:48 AM »
Hello Peter.
Free delivery is inside UK only.
To Germany,f.e. it is 3 Pounds just for a parting tool,if you buy it on Ebay.
Ordering in the Chronos web shop is 10 Pounds for a max. of 30Kg.
Ralph

GrahamC

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Re: Yet Another Carbide Insert Cut Off Parting Tool
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2010, 08:53:10 PM »
And Chronos postage to North America starts at 16 UKP when ordering from the website.

cheers, Graham