This Thread IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICS!

[dsquire]

To all MadModder's

Today while looking around the board in the "MadModder > Gallery, Projects and General > Gallery > " I found the following thread "Myford slotting atachment". Here is the link to that thread.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2087.0

This post has been read 584 times so it was popular. All that is left of the first and main post is


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« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 12:42:35 pm by _________ »  
 
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This party was having problems with photos not showing over on HMEM. I had been in contact with him by PM and apparently it was a bandwidth exceeded issue. Rather than try to fix the problem he chose to have some threads deleted and in others he went thru and deleted the links to photos. In essence a lot of garbage was created. A lot of the posts that are left are meaningless without the pictures. All the excellent posts on this forum that are illustrated by photos are going to go this route eventually as people quit, pass on, lose interest, can't afford to pay for a photo bucket Pro account, etc.

Remember what we tell every newbie,  



I think that it is time we all collectively get some dialogue going and come up with a solution so that the situation isn't allowed to get any worse than what it already is.



   Let's keep it that way!

Cheers  

Don

edit: spelling

[GrahamC]

I am a little confused Don and I am not sure what the cause of this problem is.

One of my peeves with "The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop BBS" is that you need to have an external (to the BBS) web site to store the photos that you want to post on the forum.

This forum is different in that you can either use an external web site to store the pictures or you can upload the picture to the BBS, the later being my preference as I don't to have "yet another" web site to upload to and maintain.

In the case of the thread you have refered to, was his pictures stored on another site? If so, the long term lose you refer to is very real and can and will happen at any moment. If he in fact had uploaded his pictures to this web site it begs the question as to why they have disappeared (server failure and loss of data? or did the pictures disappear from the BBS when he removed his profile?)

I had always assumed (dangerous - yes) that on web sites where I post pictures to, that those pictures would always remain in those posts (server hardware and storage problems notwithstanding) forever and a day regardless of whether I maintained a profile on that site or not.

Perhaps the admins can explain some of the inner workings of this forum and their policies regarding such matters.

cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada

[Bernd]

I'm not familar with the inner workings of this site but do know that uploading pictures to it uses space on the forums site. I don't like websites like PhotoBucket and such because of the advertisement they try to jam down your throat.

Way before I got interested in forums such as this and HMEM I had started my own website. I store all my pictures there that I link to the forum. I have also always wondered what would happen if I decided not to maintain my website anymore. I do have a duplicate set of all the pics on my computer. Probably should store them on a DVD.

The best would be to upload the pics to the forum so they become a part of it. But I'm sure it would use up valuable space and probably cost also. I guess only Eric could answer that question.

Don't know what the answer is right off hand but if we kick it around a bit it might generate some ideas.

Bernd

Added: Don, your right about the free use of the  sign on newbies.

[Brass_Machine]

All photo's uploaded here stay here.

The thread you are talking about... the OP had requested his account deleted. When I saw what he did to his posts prior, I deleted his account.

If that is the reason he messed up so many threads... it really is a shame. He should have talked to me 1st instead destroying a decent post because he exceeded bandwidth and wasn't show on another forum. I could have worked something out for him.

It's a shame.
Eric

[bogstandard]

I have only ever had trouble with photobucket once, and that seemed to be all my own fault. I accidently deleted all my pics and didn't have backup. Caused a bit of interruption of service over on HMEM. It can't happen again though.
Every picture I now have is not only on photobucket, but in two seperate files on different drives on my computer. They are at about 2.5 gigs each at the moment, so takes up hardly any room. But I do skin the pics down and only take at 1M pixels, but they are plenty good enough for website viewing. They are normally between 50KB and 150KB each. I have around 2,200 pics on photobucket, and have still only used 25% of my free allowance.

I only use the Madmodder website for direct upload for small pics, usually one off C-o-C's, otherwise if I uploaded all the pics I use, and everyone else did, the website would soon start to get loaded down and bandwidth exceeded.

I don't know what trouble you have had Bernd, but I have never had any ads from PB at all, just upload the pics, grab the links, and then use them in my posts.
I think you must have told them at some time that you wanted to receive all their junk.


John

[mklotz]

Every picture I now have is not only on photobucket, but in two seperate files on different drives on my computer.

I do the same thing too, Bogs, but, in addition, every three months I copy the picture folder (along with a couple of other critical folders) to a DVD.  Once a new DVD is burned, the previous one is secreted away in a location physically removed from the desktop computer.

While this may sound like paranoid overkill, we've been the victims of burglary twice and, while the computer has never been taken, there's always the possibility it will next time.  Beyond that, there's also the possibility of a power surge that could, conceivably, take out both drives at the same time.  DVDs are dirt cheap now and one every three months isn't going to break the bank account.

[Bernd]

John,

I have no issues with your pics. You post them the way I think they all ought to be posted. Some members both here and HMEM post through one of the photo services but it takes you to there site to see the pictures. Can't come up with an example right now, but I'm sure you get the idea. Once your on the photo services site to look at the pics you need to wait for it load all thier adverts. Then a window opens up right on top of the pic or vid your looking at, even if you have a pop up blocker on. If you can't find the little "x" that closes the window your stuck searching for a way to close it. That's what I mean about their services.

As I've stated. I've always up loaded my pictures from my web site. I've never used a web site photo service to host my pictures and never will. I run all my pics through a photo software package to make sure the pics will be veiwable on the forums.

And remember nothing is ever free.

Now here's one thing I don't understand. When I signed up for the internet back when I got my first computer the phone company provided space for me to build a web site as part of the package for internet service. I'm sure it's limited to how big and bandwidth. So my question is dosen't everybody that signs up with a service provider get a place for a web site?

I'm getting  here.

[bogstandard]

I've never had any of that Bernd, and I use both IE7 and Firefox browsers. But one thing I do have is a great security package that stops all those popups and the latest thing with IE, loads of error messages.

If I don't need or want it, Avast stops the lot, without even asking for it to be done. It makes surfing a dream. I actually use the pay for edition, but if you think it might help, you can download a free version.

http://www.avast.com/eng/download-avast-home.html


John

[Bernd]

Thanks John. I'll look into it. I also run IE7.

Bernd

[djh82uk]

Hi Guys

I run a small hosting reseller company on the side, have got a few small customers to help pay the hosting, which means that I get the rest of the server for almost free, I have about 20Gb bandwidth spare each month and quite a bit of space.  I would be more than happy to set something up so that anyone can upload pics & link to them, all free of course, no catches.

The server has been there for 5 years and ain't going anywhere soon.

If interested let me know.  I would still advise to keep local backups however, just for your own peace of mind

DJH

[Bernd]

DJH,

Thanks. How very kind of you to offer. Lets see if anybody will take you up on your offer.

Good luck and thanks again.

Bernd

[dsquire]

I am a little confused Don and I am not sure what the cause of this problem is.

Graham
I think partially the cause of the problem is the "FREE" picture posting accounts that places like Photobucket offers. As we all know, free is only a catch word to get our money in one way or the other. People start using Photobucket and think it is great until they have a problem. Over time their photo collection grows and throw in a few video's and start to get watched by everyone. Now your starting to exceed your bandwidth. Now to fix the problem you have to throw money at it and there goes the "free" part of it.

One of my peeves with "The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop BBS" is that you need to have an external (to the BBS) web site to store the photos that you want to post on the forum.

This forum is different in that you can either use an external web site to store the pictures or you can upload the picture to the BBS, the later being my preference as I don't to have "yet another" web site to upload to and maintain.

In the case of the thread you have refered to, was his pictures stored on another site? If so, the long term lose you refer to is very real and can and will happen at any moment. If he in fact had uploaded his pictures to this web site it begs the question as to why they have disappeared (server failure and loss of data? or did the pictures disappear from the BBS when he removed his profile?)

If the pictures had been stored on this site we would not be having this discussion now as everything would be OK.

The pictures were stored in a free photobucket account. Because of the popularity and size of photo's and the number of times viewed his bandwidth was exceeded. When the bandwidth is exceeded you get the blank photo not available box. Bandwidth is calculated on a monthly basis and if exceeded it will be reset on the monthly anniversary. Free Photobucket accounts are allowed 10GB of bandwidth per month.

 Here is an example of how bandwidth is calculated on Photobucket.

Quote
Example: You have various images of 25K each in size that are viewed by 100 users on your favorite message board in one day. You also have one video of 15000K that is viewed by 10 users in one day. 25K * 100 requests = 2500K (or 2.5MB). 15000K * 10 requests = 150000K (or 150MB). When you add the two together, you have used 152.5MB of bandwidth in one day.
End Quote

I had always assumed (dangerous - yes) that on web sites where I post pictures to, that those pictures would always remain in those posts (server hardware and storage problems notwithstanding) forever and a day regardless of whether I maintained a profile on that site or not.

I believe that any pictures you post to the MadModder site will be there for all present and future users forever and a day regardless of whether you maintained a profile on the site or not. If you were to post the pictures to a photobucket account then the pictures would disappear about 1 year after you died unless you could log in from the grave.

Perhaps the admins can explain some of the inner workings of this forum and their policies regarding such matters.

cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada

cheers 

Don

[dsquire]

And remember nothing is ever free.

Now here's one thing I don't understand. When I signed up for the Internet back when I got my first computer the phone company provided space for me to build a web site as part of the package for Internet service. I'm sure it's limited to how big and bandwidth. So my question is doesn't everybody that signs up with a service provider get a place for a web site?

Bernd

I have the option of running a small web site as part of my Internet providers benefits. While this would do me at present for my photo needs as I post very few, it would not solve the problem that I am trying to get at. When we die or whatever happens to us their will be no one keeping our Internet service payed up therefore it will cease to exist as will any photos or videos that I might be hosting on it.

Suppose that I had came up with a new way to build a new machine and wrote it up in a new project post. It consisted of about 500 posts and was very well documented with photographs and videos. Great, everybody loved it and had praise for me. Then without warning I have a heart attack and am dead. 30 days later nobody pays my Internet, my account is closed and now in that lovely 500 post document there are over 300 little boxes all neatly lined up in rows and they each have the same text in them. Picture or Video not Available.

At one time this may have been a good article. Now it is just a piece of  garbage that does not make sense. It is the same as taking the books written by James Watt, Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, etc. and tearing out all the illustration from their books.

I think we have to come up with a way to keep the text, photo's and video all stored in one place so that it will survive us and be available for the next and future generations to learn from or laugh at. 

I don't want to step on toe's here but I guess if people want to open a Internet Site they should decide what they want for content and what they are willing to pay to support. Do they only want text? Do they want photo's? Do they want Video's? Maybe members will have to pay a small membership fee for this privilege or heaven forbid even advertising.

If we are going to throw the baby out with the bath water, it's no sense having the baby!

Cheers

Don

[Darren]

I have a web site that I have not logged onto for about eight years and i have not been with NTL for about the same amount of time .... I can't even remember the passwords to get into it.

It's still there ... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/darren.dean/

[dsquire]

I have a web site that I have not logged onto for about eight years and i have not been with NTL for about the same amount of time .... I can't even remember the passwords to get into it.

It's still there ... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/darren.dean/

Yup, It still works and I am glad for you. The Photobucket account that I was referring to I was going by what they show in their terms and conditions.

As far as my Internet Service provider I am just assuming that if I don't pay they would shut my site down if I had one.

It would certainly be nice to find a site that one could load photo's too and have them be available for the rest of time just like a good book. I guess no matter how hard we try, we are not going to be able to replace a book and all its good features.


Thanks for the comment Darren. I am going to go check out the rest of your old site now.

Cheers 

Don

[Darren]

Hi Don, wasn't trying to doubt you, and appreciate what you are saying.

Just adding that sometimes there is an exception and I fully expected this site to vanish long ago. I believe it's reasonably popular, maybe it's the hits that keep it up?

I understand that Photobucket has had it's problems with many people loosing their pictures all at once with no explanation? Do you know anything of this?

I have no idea of course, or answers.

[dsquire]

Hi Don, wasn't trying to doubt you, and appreciate what you are saying.

Just adding that sometimes there is an exception and I fully expected this site to vanish long ago. I believe it's reasonably popular, maybe it's the hits that keep it up?

I understand that Photobucket has had it's problems with many people loosing there pictures all at once with no explanation? Do you know anything of this?

I have no idea of course, or answers.

Darren

I think it has to do with people being given FREE photo accounts and then after a while they exceed the FREE bandwidth which is what Photobucket hopes for. Then you have to wait for your 1 month anniversary before your bandwidth is reset. The other option is to buy a pro Photobucket account for about $25.00 a year and higher bandwidth. If you don't log into your account for a year they close it down by sending you an email to the email you gave when you registered and giving you 2 weeks notice. Then they close the account but keep the photo's on file for 3 month before deleting them. Some people panic when their photo's are not available rather than checking as to what has really happened and taking the necessary steps to recover them.

I think that is basically it in a nut shell Darren. I found most of this out by going on the Photobucket site and reading the "Terms and Conditions", you know, all the fine print that nobody ever bothers to read.

Cheers

Don

[dsquire]

Hi Guys

I run a small hosting reseller company on the side, have got a few small customers to help pay the hosting, which means that I get the rest of the server for almost free, I have about 20Gb bandwidth spare each month and quite a bit of space.  I would be more than happy to set something up so that anyone can upload pics & link to them, all free of course, no catches.

The server has been there for 5 years and ain't going anywhere soon.

If interested let me know.  I would still advise to keep local backups however, just for your own peace of mind

DJH

DJH

It is very generous of you to make the offer to upload photo's and link to them for free. While this might be a solution for several members on an interim  basis I don't believe that it would be a long term solution. What I am after is a solution that will protect your photo's and all the members that post very knowledgeable and helpful posts that are illustrated with pictures after we are all dead and buried and not able to pay for a photobucket account or even log in just to keep the FREE account active. Not preserving the photo's and video's is the same as taking the books written by James Watt, Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, etc. and tearing out all the illustration from their books. The text that is left behind is mostly garbage.

For me, it doesn't really matter as I post very few photo's and if I do they are posted direct. It is the other people's photo's that I am concerned about. I believe that their good information should be preserved to help the new members learn.

Cheers

Don

[Bernd]

I have the option of running a small web site as part of my Internet providers benefits. While this would do me at present for my photo needs as I post very few, it would not solve the problem that I am trying to get at. When we die or whatever happens to us their will be no one keeping our Internet service payed up therefore it will cease to exist as will any photos or videos that I might be hosting on it.

I've often wondered about that myself. Could it be we ourselves are not willing to do a little more to preserve what we have done. As an example of a picture intensive thread I'll use my thread of moving the Bridgeport into my basement. Now, I could preserve all that text and pics by saving it to DVD disk. I have the knowledge and computer to do it with. Then with specific instructions it can be made available to whom ever after your gone. Another solution would be to copy a thread that interests you and make a copy of it to DVD. It would be kind of like borrowing a book from the library, photo copying it and keeping a copy knowing that down the road the library may dissapear.

Suppose that I had came up with a new way to build a new machine and wrote it up in a new project post. It consisted of about 500 posts and was very well documented with photographs and videos. Great, everybody loved it and had praise for me. Then without warning I have a heart attack and am dead. 30 days later nobody pays my Internet, my account is closed and now in that lovely 500 post document there are over 300 little boxes all neatly lined up in rows and they each have the same text in them. Picture or Video not Available.

See above.

I think we have to come up with a way to keep the text, photo's and video all stored in one place so that it will survive us and be available for the next and future generations to learn from or laugh at. 

I'm all (ears) eyes here. As I've said above I've wondered about this also. I don't see a costless solution to the problem at the moment though. I think if an individual liked a thread well enough that he/she would copy it over to a meduim that could then be passed around. If I saved my Bridgeport thread on DVD and gave a copy to the one of the younger memebers he could then post that DVD if anything should ever happen to me.

If you look at it in the long run if Eric ever decided he no longer had any interest in this forum and shut it down, what would happen to all the info? Would somebody take it over or would it dissapear forever? I'd have to say the short term solution is to make a copy of the thread that interests you. Of course not all threads would probably be saved.

I don't want to step on toe's here but I guess if people want to open a Internet Site they should decide what they want for content and what they are willing to pay to support. Do they only want text? Do they want photo's? Do they want Video's? Maybe members will have to pay a small membership fee for this privilege or heaven forbid even advertising.

I don't think your stepping on toes here Don. It's part of a discusion for seeking a solution to a problem. I'm sure it would not be for everybody.

So lets keep the dialogue going and see if somebody has a solution. Might not be today or tomorrow, but somewere down the road.

Regards,
Bernd

[djh82uk]

Ok

An idea, I offered my server earlier that could be used to host peoples images, videos etc.  Another option is to setup a wiki that all the mods, admins and senior member can access, when you get an informative posts (for instance bogs making a flywheel thread), the relevant info/images etc can be setup as a page on the wiki.

Eventually you end up with a very informative and image rich wiki site as a backup, it can also be used to hold public domain plans, manuals etc.

something like wiki.madmodder.net

That way your not just preserving the images, but the whole content in such a way that the rest of the thread is taken out (people saying well done etc)

not only that, the wiki will show up on search engines due to it's rich content which provides an extra load of visitors to to find this site helping to grow it's userbase.

The forums great, but obviouslu the older posts can become obscured by the pages that come before it, and people wont always read all the way through a 10 page thread.

Just an idea

DJH

[Bernd]

DJH,

I've heard of this wiki that you mention. How does it work? Is another provider needed?

The final decision  would be Erics.

Bernd

[djh82uk]

Hi Bernd

Wiki is a an online encyclopedia of sorts that the whole world contributes too.  But you can setup your own on your own server (php) with restricted edit access, it can be very powerful for holding lots of data.

Any lamp stack server will run it fine

DJH

[Bernd]

DJH,

I knew wiki is an encyclopedia. I've used a couple of time. Just didn't it could be custom tailored for your own specific use. Interesting. Learned something new today. Thanks.

Bernd

[djh82uk]

Hiya

Yeh there are loads, take a look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wiki_software

DJH