Author Topic: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!  (Read 8108 times)

Offline Rog02

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Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« on: November 24, 2009, 11:59:27 AM »
I found this on a welding site I have been known to frequent.  Yankees and Englishmen beware, you made need a translator.   :scratch:

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/amazin-blaze-heatin-and-beatin.html

Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2009, 01:24:51 PM »
Is he an Auctioneer too?  :D

David D
David.

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Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline dsquire

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2009, 06:05:47 PM »
 Rog02

Thanks for posting the link. While watching the above link I found this link on welding aluminum so will post it here for anyone that is interested.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/durafix-aluminum-welding-rods.html  :lol:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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and your better best

Offline Bernd

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2009, 10:39:01 PM »
Don,

I tried out there aluminum brazing rods and flux. Now I'm pretty good when it comes to soldering, soft and silver, plus MIG welding and a bit of gas welding (oxy/acty), but I couldn't get this stuff to work good for me.

Perhaps more practice. I don't know.

Bernd
Route of the Black Diamonds

Offline Powder Keg

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2009, 11:39:55 PM »
What bout Egg shells? Can you solder them? :D
Wesley P
A Gismo ??? If it has a flywheel or spins and is made with small parts. I'll take one! If it makes noise, moves, or requires frequent oiling and dusting it's a better deal yet. It's especially right if its shiny and bright; but if it's dirty and dull it wont mater at all...

Offline Rog02

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 12:47:39 AM »
Don,

I tried out there aluminum brazing rods and flux. Now I'm pretty good when it comes to soldering, soft and silver, plus MIG welding and a bit of gas welding (oxy/acty), but I couldn't get this stuff to work good for me.

Perhaps more practice. I don't know.

Bernd

OK,  I posted the link because I had a good laugh listening to a good ol' boy breaking rap and you guys want to talk about some crap rod that they sell at flea markets.   

If you are serious about brazing aluminum go to Kent Whites site and invest some time in reading, then buy his product and get the job done.

Kent's website:
https://www.tinmantech.com/index.php

Link to Kent's soldering and brazing stuff:
https://www.tinmantech.com/html/brazing_soldering.php

Link to Kent's article on The Metalshapers Assn. website:
http://metalshapers.org/tips/white/aluminum-welding/index.htm

Link to Kent's article:WELCOME TO OUR SECTION FOR THE HUMBLE OXY-ACETYLENE TORCH
https://www.tinmantech.com/html/oxy-acetylene_torch.php

Link to the Index of some of Kent's published articles:
https://www.tinmantech.com/html/articles.php

Yes, Kent is a real metal god with the credentials to prove it. Yes, Kent sells his stuff, he also backs it up with good customer service and helpful advice.  No, I don't make anything from referring people to Kent, just a very happy customer.
Roger
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Offline dsquire

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 12:50:30 AM »
Bernd

I have never tried using that for welding aluminum. I had just remembered others talking about it awhile back so thought I would post it for what it was worth. I had tried to weld aluminum once in a similar fashion to brazing but with aluminum wire. I didn't have any luck. Either it wasn't hot enough to melt or it melted and disappeared. There didn't seem to be any in between. Definitely different than welding steel.  :lol: :lol:

Cheers  :beer:

Don

Edit:
I started to post this message BEFORE Roger posted his message. In the mean time Roger posted his message. This message was in reply to Bernds message. My next message is in reply to Rogers message. Hope this explains the order of the messages.
Don
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 01:45:49 AM by dsquire »
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Offline dsquire

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 01:02:54 AM »
Roger

I did go to the link and watched the video in question and did get a good laugh after I was able to catch my breath. I also watched about 6 or so other video's before I came back and posted the link that I did. If you read my posts It explains why I posted it and also that I did thank you for posting the link.

I guess that I should apologize for posting the off topic link and hijacking the thread with what I thought would be a helpful bit of information. I am sorry Roger. Can you ever forgive me. :( :(

cheers  :(

Don
Good, better, best.
Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best

Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 07:25:29 AM »
Don,

I tried out there aluminum brazing rods and flux. Now I'm pretty good when it comes to soldering, soft and silver, plus MIG welding and a bit of gas welding (oxy/acty), but I couldn't get this stuff to work good for me.

Perhaps more practice. I don't know.

Bernd

First here is the correct terminology

Soldering* is a process under a temperature of 840'F (450'C) (soft solder)

Silver soldering,silfoss and hard soldering are not soldering but non preferred names or descriptors of Brazing Filler rod melts above 840'F (450'C)

Brazing* is a process above a temperature of 840'F (450'C)

Both Soldering and brazing depend on capillary actions to draw the filler metal into the joint.

Welding* is a process that depends on the melting of the base and filler metals to form the joint. It doesn't depend on capillary in any way.

Braze welding is not a brazing process as it is above the temp. of brazing and lower than welding. Most frequently repairing cast iron parts. You are welding with brazing filler rod

On using the propane type aluminum solder, Two important things you have to do yes one of them is practice, and the second is using only a stainless steel wire brush used for only aluminum! No ferrous contamination, of the weld area. Along with the stainless pick or fork to move the oxides of the top of the solder pool.
The oxides form as soon as you as you stop cleaning the surface and have to be moved out of the way. I have used the aluminum in reality it is a white metal solder for years, as it will work on some die cast too.
Cleanliness is of the up most.

Here is the instruction sheet that comes with the type that is demoed and sold at car and model engineering shows in this area I know the guy that sells it for 15 years. He has been a staple at the NAMES expo for years.







In addition Probably easier for Our English members to find. Is a wonderful book by Cassell out of London. by Eric Franklin called Soldering,Brazing and Welding second edition 1963 it predateds both of the book id numbering systems!


I haven't finished a review to post yet but it is a great book on the subjects of the title and more. It covers everything, in the soldering area, both hard and soft explains the differences in the processes. wiping lead joints on pipes. Covers the repair and operation of irons ,blow pipes and other apparatus. Welding oxy/fuel,electrically and by forge.

It is a great book if and when you can find it.
Back to the subject of the solder, and it is solder not a brazing filler rod! no matter what they call it. I have used the other brand that is sold at the Big box stores with the aluminum flux it never worked as well as the propane only stuff. I have a package of aluminum solder that used to to packaged by Kester brand here in the states.

As a historical footnote, Aluminum soldering was kicked to the curb after the war here in the states. As the new and marvelous process Heli-acr came to the fore front. We know now it as TIG since Heli-arc was a brand name of the Hobart company.
 :coffee:
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        Walk on water!
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and I'm working on the first two!
glen

Offline Bernd

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 10:10:58 AM »
Glen,

Thanks for all that info.

This has become quite an informative thread. I'm wondering if it should be moved to the "Metal Stuff" board where welding is one of the subject matters? Opinions?

What got my interest piqued was the two part article in "The Home Shop Machinist" by Kent White.

 :bugeye: I just realized when I went to check out were I saw this article it's written by the person you mentioned Glen.  :bugeye: 

I guess that's why I wanted to try aluminum wedling/brazing/soldering. His article is very inspiring.  :headbang:

Bernd
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Offline John Rudd

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2009, 12:48:55 PM »
I remember my apprentice days at ICI...I had a Honda 175 at the time and blew the engine on it on the way home from work one night....

After stripping it down it appeared that a bit of welding was needed....

Duly armed with cylinder and cranckcase, I took the parts over to the Nylon workshops where they welded the tote bins...

Now these tote bins go on the back of a wagon and are around eight feet tall and 4 feet square...and......made form aluminium...

The welder there used aluminium sticks like ordinary ms welding rods to repair the tote bins...

After a packet of cigarettes, he had successfully welded my engine bits...(to no avail coz the liner was damaged too)

So, I've seen ally welding rods that electric weld like mild steel rods do....even down to the slag over the top of the weld...

Not sure what sort of a setup he had mind..... :scratch:
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Offline PTsideshow

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Re: Welding anything from the crack of dawn to a broken heart!
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2009, 06:18:32 AM »
Here is my answer to the question on Aluminum solder flux or flux less and why from another forum?
It would depend on if you could tell which brand it really was.
As with most things of that nature what you see isn't what you could be getting.
First it is a question of what you are trying to repair? I have both the flux with and the fluxless and have used both to good results. One brand that is sold is A-16weld rod it is an Aluminum & Pot Metal repair rod flux less sold at events (auto, motor cycle etc) thru out the Midwest.

There have been hundreds of Aluminum Solders invented, the compositions are in order of the largest % of material
Tin,Zinc,Silver,Aluminum, Copper,Bismuth,Phosphor Tin, Cadmium, Lead, Antimony.
The problem with the "proprietary flux" statement is it probably is advertising hype/BS. As with welding aluminum, whether TIG, oxy/fuel, or wire feed or the soldering of the same. The biggest problem is the cleanliness of the surfaces you are joining. The oxidation is extremely resistant to removal. And it starts to reform as you are cleaning it off.

Various substances have been suggested through the years as a flux out of all of them. Stearin(by product of processing beef ) a glyceryl ester of stearic acid, derived from animal fats. Replacement for tallow in soap and candle production. It only helps the solder flow and occludes the air on the surface. It doesn't help in any of the cleansing action. The use of Phosphoric acid as a flux will attack and remove some of the oxide film.

But the side effect of using it is that after the join is made it is very difficult to remove completely the flux form the parent metal and join. A reaction generally develops with the Phosphoric acid flux, the parent metal causing subsequent corrosion and deterioration of the joint can occur. Weakening the joint.

In general use, therefore aluminum soldering is best carried out with out the use of flux.

So as most of the ones, point out, use only stainless steel brushes, or aluminum oxide flap discs, or sanding cloths Never used on Ferrous material. As this will cause contamination of the join. Using a scraper of stainless steel a single tine of a stainless fork works good. To scrape the beneath the surface of the molten solder! This way the oxide is mechanically removed and the molten solder covering the cleaned parts, preventing air and oxidation.

And not over heating the join area. As most of the aluminum solder melts around 650'F to 720'F
You will have to practice, practice, practice and clean, clean, clean!
If you have seen the demo's of it at the shows, something to remember the guy doing the demo. Does this for a living,12/16 hours a day 3/4 days a week! Sure they are going to make it look easy!

The stuff at the state fairs and most of the shows demo's and expo's is all imported from China,from the same manufacturer, comes in 50 pound boxes.

I use the flux less A-16 rod all the time for most light applications, were there will not be any stress, or weight on the join. It has a tensile strength lbs.sq/in 37,800, Shear strength lbs. sq/in 34,000

You can PM me and I will send you the contact info for the A-16 rod.
In full disclosure, the guy that sells it is a long time friend and has been doing our North American Model Engineering Society Exposition each year.
I do not receive a commission. 

Hope this answers the questions about the aluminum/pot metal repair rod.
"The internet just a figment, of my imagination!' 
 
 There are only 3 things I can't do!"
Raise the Dead!
        Walk on water!
                 Fix a broken heart!
and I'm working on the first two!
glen