How do I get the old oil out of the headstock?

[AdeV]

I've got a nice big drum of new hydraulic oil arriving tomorrow for my lathe. Before I put it in, I'd like to clear out the remnants of the old oil - which is as black as the Ace of Spades, and probably contains bits of the mid-range drive gear (see posts elsewhere...) which ought to be fished out...

There doesn't seem to be any means of draining the headstock right to the bottom, so I'm guessing the oil will have to come out of the top? Given this, what's the best way?

I can think of a couple of options:

1) Try to syphon it out with some plastic tube. Probably quickest, but also the most tricky, especially as the level really falls.
2) Wick it out through some rope - would that even work?
3) Wipe it out with rags & towels - this will be fine when I'm down to the last few bits, but there's still quite a lot in there, so I think this could take forever
4) Some obvious method I can't think of?

Many thanks in advance!

[bogstandard]

Just pick the lathe up and pour it out.

Joking aside, if it has a head gearbox, it should also have a drain plug. Mine are actually behind the change gear area. Oil goes everywhere when I take the plug out while I am struggling to get a bit of guttering under it to get the oil into my drain bucket.

If you are really worried about the oil being very bad, drain out as much as you can, top it up with some new oil, run for say half an hour and drain out again. That should get rid of most of the contaminants.

I am due to do mine again. I might even make a drain extension so that I can just turn a tap on and off to get it out. I will have to see if I can get past the gears.

If you can get a bike pump down to the oil, that will soon suck it out.


Bogs

[AdeV]

Just pick the lathe up and pour it out.

Ha! Only if you come & help me.... 

Joking aside, if it has a head gearbox, it should also have a drain plug. Mine are actually behind the change gear area. Oil goes everywhere when I take the plug out while I am struggling to get a bit of guttering under it to get the oil into my drain bucket.

I confess I've not been all over the lathe looking for a plug. I will do so tomorrow.

If you are really worried about the oil being very bad, drain out as much as you can, top it up with some new oil, run for say half an hour and drain out again. That should get rid of most of the contaminants.

I suspect that there are bits of one of the gears in it. Whilst it's almost 100% certain they'll stay put in the sump, I would hate for a piece to work loose & jam in a gear causing even more damage...

I like the bicycle pump idea, I think I'll give that one a try; I'm sure I've got one around here somewhere...

 

[Davo J]

There are some pictures in the link below that show the drain plugs and one way of getting it out, it is simular to Johns lathe. There are a few tips on belts etc in that thread also.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=216408&page=7
Dave

[John Hill]

If you are going to use a bike pump it will work better if you take it apart and invert the washer thing, that way it will actually 'suck'.

[tinkerer]

A big turkey baster will get most of it maybe. You can put a small plastic tube over the end to reach the difficult areas.

[John Hill]

I suppose the 'proper thing' for a madmodder to do would be to turn up a nice venturi then you can use compressed air to suck it all out including any sludge or chips that might be in there!

[bogstandard]

I gather you are going to or already have taken the top cover off.

If you have or are about to do so, then do as the chap did in the article that Davo sent us to.

Drop a strong magnet in the bottom of the box, somewhere it can never do any damage if it 'grows'. Then any ferrous particles will be taken out of the oil, and won't do any further damage.



Bogs

[John Hill]

Bogs, I think if you put the magnet on the drain plug (on the outside) you end up with any ferrous material stuck to the plug which makes it easy to remove when you do a drain without taking the lid off.

[bogstandard]

That goes without saying John.

[Davo J]

I have seen plenty of drain plugs with the magnet attached to them on the inside They are usually either glued in or a sitting in a machined pocket and the magnetic force holds them there. That way when you remove the plug the bits come with it.
Dave

[AdeV]

I've just had a quick hunt around the bottom of the headstock, and there's a couple of bolts there that look like they could be drains... I will investigate a little later, when the day job isn't interfering...

Thanks for all the suggestions! I may still need some of them; I don't know how well it'll drain out yet. I can't use the turkey baster idea - ever since I watched "A Thing Called Love", turkey basters have been on my phobia list  (Unfortunately, the series appears to have disappeared into obscurity, which is a shame as it was a great watch. And had the lovely Liz White in it, plus the aforementioned turkey baster....)

Magnets: I have a couple of Neo magnets salvaged from an old hard disk. I'll find somewhere suitable for it.

John - I like the Venturi idea! But I'm in a catch-22 here: Can't really turn anything until I can run the machine for a decent length of time, which I can't do until I put new oil in, which I don't want to do until I've got the oil out...

[AdeV]

Update: Well, I found the drain plug, and the oil was already below that level. Couldn't find a bicycle pump, so I mopped the old stuff out as best I could with some rags. I pulled 2 grub screws out with a magnet. No idea where they came from; one seems to only be half a grub screw, the other looks quite complete. Refilled with fresh oil to the line, job's a good 'un. She runs as smooth as you like now. The spindle brake doesn't work terribly well, probably out of friction material. The clutch works well, however.

I'm having trouble getting a nice surface finish; for today's effort I turned a "mystery steel" bar as well as I could with the indexable carbide tool that's in the holder already (and, thus, is at the correct height); then used some 240 grit wet & dry + cutting oil, followed by 800 grit; first with oil then without. It came out shiny except for some rings which were either really deep machining marks, or maybe I got a bit of swarf in the sandpaper.

I still have much to learn.... the education (hopefully!) continues over the weekend 

[Darren]

Some steel, most unless it's a free cutting type, is hard to get a good finish with.

Stainless, brass & alloy are nice to use 

[trevoratxtal]

Hello AdeV
Quote ""I still have much to learn.... the education (hopefully!) continues over the weekend .""
From what I have seen you do over the last few days, are well impressive.
I will be following your postings for some time.
I have answered this posting for future reference as I see you have sorted the oil problem for now.
Most Chandlers stock a Oil suction syringe of a large size with various attachments to clean out engine sumps on boats. 
such as
http://www.pufferparts.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=273
But then again one can be made from a washing up bottle and a length of plastic pipe. Not quite as powerful but for light oils works a treat.
Trev

[AdeV]

Thanks Trev & Darren, your comments are much appreciated.

Today I notice the clutch has stopped working (it's permanently engaged, which is better than permanently disengaged I guess  ). Maybe it'll free itself up when the oil's warmed up a bit. Fortunately, the clutch is only a nice-to-have, I guess in a hectic production shop it'd be in use constantly, but I can just use the electrical switches.

I've sized up the tool holder: 5"x5"x3.5". That's going to be a big chunk of metal...

[bogstandard]

I would suggest you try to locate where the grub screws came from. It just might be that by having those missing could be causing a few of the faults you are finding.


Nuts and bolts don't just grow in an oily environment, the only place they are liable to have come from is the metal contained within the box.


Bogs

[ozzie46]

  I agree with John, I was surprised when you said you put oil back in and didn't try to find out where the screws go.

  Ron

[AdeV]

I had a good look around inside, and couldn't immediately see anywhere where they might belong. Like you, I was intrigued & a little concerned.

I can only assume they're to do with the clutch, since that's the only bit in the headstock that's showing any signs of misbehaviour. I'll have another good look at it tonight. I've got a mirror-on-a-stick somewhere, maybe there's something 'round the back where it's not obviously visible.

[Darren]

Is the clutch in the oil you have just put in? If so that may have a bearing on the issue.

[AdeV]

Is the clutch in the oil you have just put in? If so that may have a bearing on the issue.

It's not in the oil, but it does get quite a bit splashed on it when the lathe is in use. The oil splashes pretty much everywhere in the headstock... More by luck than judgment, I managed to fill it exactly to the right level, so I'm pretty sure it's not over-full. Apparently, it's an easy device to adjust, although I couldn't tell you how from just looking at it.

[Darren]

I suppose you have put the lid back on now, but a picture might help to see what type it is?

[AdeV]

My wish is your command 

Here's three shots of the clutch, showing it disengaged, half-engaged (slipping) and fully engaged. Although when disengaged, it's also slipping somewhat. Click on the pics for the larger version:



As you can see, the slider moves from right to left; compressing what looks like a normal clutch pack on the LHS. Here's a few more closeups which, hopefully, show some of the other details:




An overview of the headstock. The clutch is in the far left corner, looking from the front of the lathe.


I have a bunch of toolpost questions too, but I'll open a separate thread for that one.

[AdeV]

I would suggest you try to locate where the grub screws came from. It just might be that by having those missing could be causing a few of the faults you are finding.


Nuts and bolts don't just grow in an oily environment, the only place they are liable to have come from is the metal contained within the box.

I found a place for one of the grub screws; appears to be a set screw in one of the first motion gears. The gear was still firmly attached to the shaft, however, by at least one more "thing" (I'd say grub screw, but it looks more like a badly made rivet), and possibly a second one. Nevertheless, I've screwed the screw back in, and it doesn't seem to have had any adverse effects (or, for that matter, made any difference at all). I can't find anywhere where the mangled second screw might have come from, which just suggests that it's underneath something else & I can't see it.

[Darren]

I doubt it's from underneath as it needs to accessible for assembly. Just a hunch.

The clutch seems to be two serrated plates pressed together for engaged. They should come apart to dis-engage.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the bolt you found?