Blow Torches - which for what

[raynerd]

Hi Guys

I have had trouble heating things to a cherry red, I`ve been using my brother-in-laws general purpose plumers torch for small bits of silver soldering but I now need to heat some steel to cherry red to harden it. I know when I tried to heat the steel pistons on my elbow engine a few months back the torch failed to get them hot enough. I`m also now in a situation where I want my own but I just don`t know what to buy.
Is it a case that I will need a different torch for silver soldering than I will need for this job?

Stew shows his collection of blow lamps in this thread below
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=547.msg9495#msg9495

I do appreciate that there are different torches and different gas options but which are best for what purpose and most specifically what will I need to heat my steel to cherry red?

I know there is also the oxy-acetylene torches but I can imagine they are quite pricy - is this what I need?

Any specific recomendations would be welcome!
 

[John Rudd]

Chris,

My son bought me one of these for a birthday pressie one year.......



It runs off Propane...Problem is of you dont have a gas cyclinder already, Calor will want £30 as a deposit then there's the cost of the gas above that...around £20 for a 7kg bottle..

Oxy-Acetylene is good too for welding sheet metal, again acquiring the bottles and regs can be a problem....obtaining refills is an issue also if you dont have an account with BOC...

[sbwhart]

Chris

I use the same torch as John with propane the kit I got came with a range of nozzles that will more or less deal with most of my needs. As well as the torch I'd recomend you gat hold of some fire bricks to work on that way you won't set your bench on fire, (been there got the scroch marks) 

I got my bricks from Wilkinsons

Cheers

Stew

[Bernd]

Chris and others,

If your interested in heat treating or just getting metals hot enough to bend here's a site that can give you some details on building your own propane nozzel and forge.

I built one nozzel from his design for my a try out of a 5 gallon bucket foundry. Worked very well.

http://ronreil.abana.org/Forge1.shtml

Bernd

[Andy]

Chris, proper use of firebricks will help to get stuff hot enough even if you have only a 'weedy' torch.

I use one of those Bernzomatic heads (with piezo lighter) on a small bottle (as used by plumbers) of Mapp gas. Burns hotter than propane. Not ideal, but I can silver solder, case harden and heat treat with this.  Without the firebricks it would be a struggle sometimes. Use sections of brick to build little caves around part to be heated.

[raynerd]

Guys, went to see my Grandad this afternoon and he sorted me out with a blow lamp gun and a small (relatively) tank of propane. It did the job and got it cherry red in no time. I`m not going to give this too much thought right now as I have done the job I needed to do and busy spending money else where but I have to say that the flame is huge and would be no use for focued heat in other situations. Anyway, he had two guns and so he has given me this one and I can "borrow" the bottle until he asks for it back (since he has 3 other large bottles in the garden I`m sure it will be at mine for a good while!)

Thanks for your help - I`ll certainly dig this post back up in the next few weeks and get my self sorted with some heating equipment for Christmas!!

[Yorkshireman]

In this context:

Does anyone know an supplier of the Little Torch
http://www.littletorch.com/index.html
in Europe?

I have often work, where the smallest Siewert is still too clumbsy.

Thanks
Johannes

[John Rudd]

Johannes,

Maybe a quick email to them asking if they have a UK distributor or even in Europe...?

[Yorkshireman]

There is a Global Distributor Locator on their WebPage, but this does not seem to work, did not get an answer either...
Johannes

[websterz]

I harden and temper lots of 4140 in my shop, and I use a natural gas burner. The particular style is called a Meker burner. It is like a bunsen burner on steroids. The best part is I never have to worry about a propane bottle running out on me.  I can heat 5/8" discs of steel .100" thick to bright orange (where you need it, cherry red isn't hot enough) in under a minute. Propane may burn hotter but it is not as convenient in my case.

I second the firebrick comments, they are a must have! 

[raynerd]

That is interesting - at work we have Bunsens and one of my colleagues connect the oxygen cylinder to the air hole, I think to demo how this increases the rate of combustion. I wasn`t there when he did it but he showed me the Bunsen aftr and it deformed the top of the chimney so I`m guessing this could certainly get to temperature! 

[rlh3]

First post here, but I thought that I might be able to assist on the Smith Little Torch issue.  My wife uses one in her art jewelry work, so you might try the jewelery supply catalogs.  I know that they show up in most of the catalogs, such as Rio Grande and Otto Frei here in the states.  These outfits usually charge a premium, but if it is the only place to get it... 
I guess that they think that since you are working in precious metals, you must be made of them...

Roman

[bogstandard]

I replaced my old worn out bottle ones a few months ago, I bought this lot, which came to about 55 squid, then get yourself a bottle and you are in business.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-427639-Soldering-Brazing-Nozzles/dp/B000LFRRCI/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-456996-General-Purpose-Burners/dp/B000LFRRDW/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_3

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-633926-Metre-Gas-Hose/dp/B000U02G20/ref=pd_bxgy_diy_text_b

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-196559-Regulator/dp/B000LFVDC8/ref=pd_bxgy_diy_text_b

All nozzles fit all handles.


Bogs

[John Hill]

The only torches I see available around here are two sizes, too big and too small.  I use my kerosene blow lamp to preheat stuff which is good (if you like the ceremony and rites involved in getting one of those things to run! )

[raynerd]

I decided to have a trot down to Technology area today at work to talk about this subject, I`m still having problems. To cut a long story short, he took me into a little side room in which there was a fantastic hearth setup, firebricks and a selection of heating "implements"!

I have arranged to use it on Monday - so look forward to doing so! I have actually already hardened the piece that I need to, but may I was take up the opportunity so when the situation next arrises, they will let me do it alone when I need to.

I really should talk to them more up there, we are at opposite sides of the building but they really have some good equipment.
Chris