Author Topic: A warning  (Read 31212 times)

Offline Darren

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A warning
« on: September 08, 2009, 02:41:21 PM »
There are enough Ebay bashing sites abound, and perhaps I should not post this at all....

But I can't just stay silent....if you are about to sell even just one item on Ebay then you should perhaps read the rest of this post.


The problem is a combination of Ebay sellers no-longer being allowed to leave feedback on sales and Paypal protection policies.

It goes like this......
you sell an item of X value (could be any amount large or small)
Buyer pays for item using Paypal
You post item
Buyer claims non receipt and Paypal remove funds from you acc instantly. (If it's not in your PP acc they will take the amount from your bank)
Paypal then insist you provide tracking information for the parcel. (you didn't use tracking, tough you loose. You did use a tracking service, tough you still loose)

Why, you have the tracking No' to prove delivery and receipt. Well don't bother trying to take it up with Paypal because no-one is actually reading anything you send them. The whole process is automated even though they give you a box to comment in.

If and only if the buyer ticks the box that states they are finally satisfied with the outcome will Paypal re-deposit the funds back into your account.
If the buyer simply doesn't respond or states they still don't have the goods (despite the proof you have that they signed for it) then after 30 days the money is deposited into their account.

You loose the item and your money and postage costs.




Most people believe they are protected if PP is used for payment. Nothing could be further from the truth.



Try it, order something and then claim non receipt. 99% of the time you'll have the goods and get to keep your cash..........
(I don't mean that, just putting another slant on the issue)


This is rife on Ebay at the mo, google it and you'll find plenty of info about this issue.

Just be careful out there, money is not so easy for some of us to come by.


« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 03:12:01 PM by Darren »
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Offline usn ret

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Re: A warning
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 03:10:10 PM »
It seems that there is always some  :wack: pond skum  :wack: out there to mess up a good deal for the rest of us. :( . In Texas we had a saying that might help "Get a rope!!!" :ddb: :ddb:
Cliff :beer:
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 04:45:52 PM by CrewCab »
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: A warning
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 03:15:55 PM »
I wonder how long before Paypal get prosecuted for aiding fraud.

Offline Barefoot-Leather

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Re: A warning
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 07:20:34 PM »
You will be pleased to know that PayPal have another slant on your scam. I got caught with this today after selling some nice bits on the bay:

PayPal email starts:

You've received a payment, detailed below. We've placed a temporary hold on the funds for this transaction.

eBay and PayPal are working together to make it safer than ever to buy on eBay. One of the boldest steps is to identify transactions that pose the greatest risk of fraud and holding the payments from sellers for a period of time to help ensure that the transactions go smoothly.

We'll release the payment for the eBay item if either of the following occurs:

The buyer leaves you positive feedback on eBay.
It's been 21 days since the payment date and you haven't received a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal on the transaction being held
Additional hold period

If you receive a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal on the transaction, we may hold the payment until the problem is resolved.

Learn more about the PayPal policy on payment holds for eBay items.

We will notify you by email when the funds are released. You can also check the status of the hold in your Transaction History.

Payment Details

Amount (pending): 217.77 GBP

Email ends.

Effectively this means that if the buyer doesn't give you positive feedback, PayPal will hold on to your money for at least for 21 days. I called them to ask if they were intending to pay me interest on the money they had stolen. I was told that no interest will be paid as this is just our normal policy and is detailed in our trading terms.

Well, it may be detailed in their trading terms but I musta missed it! Silly me - I was expecting honest and transparent banking policies...

For what it is worth, the answer is pretty simple - if it happens to you don't post anything, issue an instant refund to the buyer then ask them to send a cheque (or in my case, make a payment to another PayPal account held for this very purpose). As you may have guessed, I've had hassle with the buggers before.

The refund went through and the other payment was made without a murmur... odd that!

Ray
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: A warning
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 07:59:58 PM »
Banking scum!



Everyone is out to screw the little guy. It doesn't take long for them to start stealing again does it!?

I hate the way they hold your money when you deposit a cheque at the bank just so they can play the exchange and gamble with it!



I'll not be using "pay scam " when I sell some of my stuff soon.... Cheque or C.O.D! 





Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 08:55:15 PM »
Sadly it's now compulsory to accept Paypal on Ebay Ralph.......mention that you won't in the listing and it's likely to get pulled.


Also there are scams for buyers to loose their money too....
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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 09:02:25 PM »
Ray,

Was it a handbag by any chance?
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Offline jim

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Re: A warning
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 11:07:13 PM »
if you have a low feedback/new member then you have to wait :bang:

ebay, owns paypal and controls an incredable amount of money, they just make it up as they go along.

out of interest, if you pay some one through paypal as a gift ( its under "personal" in type of payment) then there is no comision :D

if i'd thought it through, i'd have never tried it

Offline NickG

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Re: A warning
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 05:08:16 AM »
Thanks for raising that Darren, i've sold stuff on ebay in the past through paypal but will have to be more careful in future.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Barefoot-Leather

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Re: A warning
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 07:08:33 AM »
Ray,

Was it a handbag by any chance?

Not this time, Darren - although they have hit me on bag sales in the past. It seems that anything over £100 is likely to get pulled - push past the £200 mark and your card is definitely marked. A hand-stitched bag like this sells for £120 so they nail me almost every time:





Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2009, 08:09:07 AM »
My missus sold a designer bag on Ebay a couple of months ago.

Buyer paid, we sent, buyer left poss feedback and all was well in our little world for a couple of weeks.


Then Paypal withdrew the funds from our bank acc, re-funded the buyer and asked them to "destroy" the bag as Paypal believed it was a fake.
The bag was genuine and the buyer had this validated.

The end result was that the buyer was honest enough to send us a cheque. It could have been worse as you can probably imagine.

If you this this is a trivial matter because it's just a handbag then please think again. This handbag was worth more that most of your lathes or milling machines.

But what gets me is that Paypal made these decisions without seeing the item or receiving any complaints......
I realise they have a counterfeit problem, but surely this is not the way to try to tackle it....


I no longer accept Paypal for anything.
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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 07:56:43 AM »
Something new has come to light......

If an Ebay buyer is dissatisfied Ebay will re-imburse from the sellers PayPal/Bank account.

This seems to be irrespective of how the payment was made.....!!!
So if the buyer sends you a cheque, makes a complaint, Ebay will take the funds from your account+fees+postage and re-imburse the buyer.

You loose everything.......!! And Ebay always sides with the buyer, there is no investigation.

In the notice Ebay also states if you don't agree with the new terms then here's the link to close your account....


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Offline John Stevenson

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Re: A warning
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2009, 08:25:20 AM »
My missus sold a designer bag on Ebay a couple of months ago.

Buyer paid, we sent, buyer left poss feedback and all was well in our little world for a couple of weeks.


Then Paypal withdrew the funds from our bank acc, re-funded the buyer and asked them to "destroy" the bag as Paypal believed it was a fake.
The bag was genuine and the buyer had this validated.

The end result was that the buyer was honest enough to send us a cheque. It could have been worse as you can probably imagine.

If you this this is a trivial matter because it's just a handbag then please think again. This handbag was worth more that most of your lathes or milling machines.

But what gets me is that Paypal made these decisions without seeing the item or receiving any complaints......
I realise they have a counterfeit problem, but surely this is not the way to try to tackle it....


I no longer accept Paypal for anything.

Darren,
you need to send this to one of the better nationals, like the Guardian as they will love this and it might wake a few more stories up they can run with and hurt Eaby into accepting that not all sellers are crooks whereas it making it easier for buyers to become crooks.
John Stevenson

Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2009, 01:24:03 PM »
John I am far from alone, there are many reports of this behaviour on various forums.

And plenty of other issues too.

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Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2009, 02:30:37 PM »
http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y09/m05/i13/s02

My experience it that Ebay is judge, jury and executioner with no evidence what-so-ever. What seems to be happening is more and more unscrupulous buyers are lining up to "declare" fakes and getting refunds while keeping the goods which are often genuine...for proof of return an empty package is not unheard of.

Another one it to "declare" the item was received was not new as advertised, but used.....result = refund......go figure.


Have you not noticed how hard it's getting to find anything interesting second hand on Ebay these days? That's because they are not there in the numbers they used to be.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 02:38:50 PM by Darren »
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Offline raynerd

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Re: A warning
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2009, 04:28:12 PM »
I`ve been taken on this twice as well over the last few years.

A couple of years ago I sold a guitar for about £450, buyer paid paypal and I sent. He emailed the next day to say it was not as described as it has a large split down the back. Well there was 100% no split on it when I sold it and the buyer ensured me he had not done it. Anyway, he initiated a refund on paypal where the money was returned to him (cocking up my banking, as the money was moved in another account!!) but I`d have refunded anyway but with less stress on my behalf. I was annoyed but had faith that I had paid £25 for insured postage to cover it! A week later and the guy thankfully returned my guitar (although I was lucky because once refunded you are in their hands) I had to go to the PO at 9:30am next morning to see post office manager. He was excellent, really sympathetic, showed him the rapper, the custom built padded hard case and the crack. No problem he said. 2 weeks later and a letter saying "your insurance does not cover this damaged item as the item was not sufficiently packaged" It was an absolute scam - I rang the PO for hours that morning but didn`t get anywhere.... well and truly jipped!  No money and an irreparable guitar.

Second was more recently and as simple as Darren said. I sold a fish tank filter - £50, buyer claimed he didn`t receive it, I had no proof of postage and I ended up with no money and no filter!

 :bang:

Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2009, 07:56:07 PM »
I've been using various carriers for over 10yrs and non of them have ever honoured their insurance. In the end I stopped insuring items. Not too long ago I was sending out items with each on average £150 ins cover, about eight a month. The packaging was specialist made to unbelievable standards, way over the top.

The breakages eventually became one of the main factors for me to cease trading as non of the carriers paid out.

If it can be broken, they will break it. Not every time, but enough.

Somewhere on the net is a list of what is not covered by Parcel Farce, this same list near enough applies to all carriers .
If it can be broken or is valuable it's on the list. You get the sweeping categories such as glass, stone, wood, antiques, Then the less broad watches, jewellery, etc. The list is enormous.

The only thing I ever found the cover useful for is loss, as in not delivered. Funny that, I've never had to make that claim.....ever...!

That's what makes Ebay claims such a farce...

I'm currently disputing a non receipt case, I have the receivers signature proof.....but I will loose....again. Three this last month.
It used to be an odds game, you made more than you lost so took it on the chin. Since the new rules that is no longer the case.


I want to sell my Sealey mill, normally I'd put it on Ebay, now I'm very reluctant to do so.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 07:58:59 PM by Darren »
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Offline NickG

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Re: A warning
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2009, 12:01:17 PM »
I'm getting too scared to sell anything on ebay again after seeing this. In the past I've used it quite a lot to sell stuff and touch wood, had 100% feedback so far, but this is really putting me off.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2009, 04:34:02 AM »
I'm raging this morning...... :bang:

I have just been scammed for another £360 this morning and Paypal have removed my funds. Not enough in my paypal acc so took it from my bank. Not enough there either so I will now occur bank charges on top as well.

It's over something I sold 3 weeks ago, £250 for the item and the rest is shipping to the middle east. It was a heavy item.

What makes it worse is the fact that myself and the buyer discussed this item with around 4 messages before he bought, thus confirming it met his needs/satisfaction.

This is the item, you might think that four scams in such a short space of time is probably my fault.
Please tell me how anyone could be misled by this auction....?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110410648114&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

I'm fuming.....I'm trying to sell my surplus items and all I'm doing is loosing the goods and cash on top......

This was his message in the PayPal dispute I'm supposed to respond to..

"物品与描述不符,声音一边大,一边小,喇叭已经退磁,不是正常的"

« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 05:26:47 AM by Darren »
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Offline NickG

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Re: A warning
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2009, 05:09:48 AM »
Darren,

Really feel for you, what a nightmare. I don't think I'm going to sell anything more on there. Or just play the game and only accept cash on collection. Could they do a disupute like this even if it was cash and they didn't pay through paypal?

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2009, 05:16:06 AM »
According to the new rules Nick yes they can......

If you sell for cash and the buyer makes a dispute they will remove the funds from your PP acc, If you don't have one they can start legal proceedings apparently.
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Offline NickG

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Re: A warning
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2009, 05:34:21 AM »
That is rubbish. I always thought the majority of people were quite honest, but this doesn't seem uncommon from what you and other people have said.

If somebody has come to see the item though and given you cash surely they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

It seems ridiculous the whole thing.

Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Darren

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Re: A warning
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2009, 05:36:37 AM »
And Ebay have just removed my one and only auction because I stated in the listing that I do not accept PayPal as a form of payment.....

I have a lot of items to shift, but will no longer use Ebay.....trouble is where do you go...to sell that is..?


I have a nice Sealey miller for sale......anyone interested PM me....it's a 30 model which rarely found second hand and is significantly larger and sturdier than the common 25 model. It's also in very good condition.



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Offline NickG

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Re: A warning
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2009, 05:43:10 AM »
a lot of the things I was selling, ebay was the only real market place for it, so I don't know. Usually it attracted decent prices too.

Very annoying, do you think you have much chance of getting the money / item back?
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline andyf

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Re: A warning
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2009, 05:44:04 AM »
Darren, for engineering related sales, have you looked at http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/ ?

Andy
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