Makita Chop Saw - just got one and a huge thumbs up!

[raynerd]

My brother in law came to my house a few weeks ago with a gift, it was his dads and he didn`t want it any more and so I became the proud owner of a Mikita Chop Saw 2414NB. I only just got a suitable 14" disk for this a few days ago and I can`t tell you how impressed I am with it. Cuts through all my bits like butter and a 3" ally bar that took me 20 minutes to hack through a few months ago took me seconds with this...

Anyone have anything similar? Now I haven`t ever owned or seen a power hacksaw or bandsaw in use - but I`m really impressed with this chop saw and would love to know how a band saw or power hacksaw differs in terms of its purpose?

Anyone have one of these or something similar - how do you rate it?



Chris

[Darren]

Chris,

I'm not sure I'd be cutting ally with this type of saw? It's not what it's designed for, the ally could clog the blade and it could grab.....you don't want to know what might happen next........

There are some posts on here about saws.....

[Bluechip]

Good bit of kit ... my mate has one (DeWALT),uses it on ally,  IIRC with a 'negative rake' blade ..

He cuts stuff for me. I'm not allowed to use it .. Elfin etc. etc.

OK by me, I get to watch him do it, while I'm swilling coffee ..

dave

[Darren]

Neg rake blade ok, but aren't these machines a bit fast for those blades?

these saws usually have fibre blades in them.

Chris what is the blade made from?

[raynerd]

Darren - As aluminium is my main metal I was going to buy the evolution ally cutting disk but reading some forums on the net, apparently the steel disk cuts ally well with a few squirts of WD40 as a help. No clogging or problems so far and I`ve cut down a fair bit now. To be honest - it had cut through it within seconds. I understand your thinking and it was a concern of mine when choosing the disk but so far so good ... I use it outside on the flags so it isn`t going anywhere if it does clog.

[Darren]

What type of blade is it?

Is it like an angle grinder disc or toothed like a wood blade?

[raynerd]

Sorry Darren  - you asked the question while I was posting so didn`t see it 

It is a metal grinding disk not a circular saw blade. I wouldn`t be so foolish again as it is dangerous but I have cut small sections of steel and ally with a small 4" grinder and it worked fine, just not safe enough. This thing just grinds right thorough it but with it nice and safe locked in place and with a nice blade cover!!

Chris

[Darren]

Sorry Chris, I don't mean to be a net nanny but I cannot sit back and ignore what you have told us. That blade is not designed to cut alloy.

It might well do it, but it's deff an accident waiting to happen. And don't be thinking the guard will save you, it's too flimsy to stop one of those disks if it comes apart at the high speeds those saws run at.

Trust me, I do know from personal exp though I wasn't cutting alloy at the time. Nor would I.

You can read all sorts of advice on the net. That don't make it right. I'd suggest asking the blade manufacturer what WD40 does to the glues they use to bind the abrasives together.

Let me put it this way, WD40 is a solvent......mostly contains white spirit I believe. White spirit and glue.....come on, think about it...

Use the tool for what it was designed for, ferrous metals, get another saw for alloy.

[John Rudd]

Got to agree with Darren on this when it comes to cutting ally bar...those machines were designed for cutting ferrous metals at highish speeds. I have an Evolution Rage II with a 14 in blade, it spins at 1400rpm...so less chance of grabbing and with a multi purpose blade that cuts wood and metal is ideal...

I still use my Warco CY90 band saw for cutting ally...but with the viceit has its not much good for cutting short material...


Take care please!

[raynerd]

 

 

Well fair play -  I totally respect your advice and don`t fancy losing a limb for the sake of an engine. I still have chunks of steel and such that I wish to cut so I`ll use it for that - looks like I`m shelling out some money to cut ally - sticking with the hand hacksaw is killing me!! - ahh well it was a freeby and should still be useful but this hobby really really dents your wallet!!!

Chris

[Darren]

this hobby really really dents your wallet!!!

That's because you are running before you can walk...... I jest, I'm a tad guilty of that myself.

But I have been collecting tools for over 20yrs or more.


Sorry for being so strong. Having had a cut off saw disc explode in front of me demolishing the saw itself at the same time and seeing the words solvents banded about something had to be said.

I really do not like these saws, or angle grinders for that matter, and will only use one when all else fails.

Now then, the Evolution/Rage is another animal altogether.....

[raynerd]

That's because you are running before you can walk......    I jest, I'm a tad guilty of that myself.

Haha - I guess so but this hobby really grips you. Making working engines just blows me away and then as you improve you want to do more. I remember getting my Clarke mini lathe, chucking up some scrap wood (!!!!!!) and turning it down, watching the shavings falling off and then polishing it up. When I took it out of the chuck I thought that little pieces of wood was the best thing since sliced bread! Then the next day I shaved it to a set diameter, the next day I drilled the centre, then I made a little piece that fit on the top and before I knew it I had a pen! Now I`ve made an engine, that works and it has just blown me away ..... !!!

Sorry can`t help running and I make no excuses. The only important thing is that while I`m running I keep checking up safety wise! E.g. in future not cutting 3" of ally bar in basically an angle grinder!! 

Cheers guys - still a nice piece of kit and I`m still pleased with it for cutting my hard stuff. I have a 3ft bar of 2" silver steel that needs chopping in the next few days so should be useful there!
Chris

[Darren]

You'd have to check with someone else, but you harden Silver Steel by heating it up, as in cutting it with a chop saw.

You have to quench it mind, to harden it that is. but I'm not sure what the saw may do to it?

[raynerd]

lmao      would anyone like a chop saw?

[Brass_Machine]

lmao      would anyone like a chop saw?

Nah, don't get rid of your chop saw Chris. There are uses for it. After you give it away, you will find one!

I have both a chop saw and a band saw. The band saw gets used the most, but the chop saw sees a lot of action. I presently use it to cut the CF tubing down that I use for kickstands. Can't say I would want to use the band saw for that!

Eric

[raynerd]

Just bringing this thread back up from the dead - I`ve hardly used this since finding out I shouldn`t be cutting ally with it (I do listen and take your advice!!) but I`m wondering if I have my first use for it... Would this be OK for hacking a lump of a 3" steel bar? It is pretty hefty which I why I just want to check. This is for my QCTP that I am trying to make and I had a hell of a job trying to part it last night. It just kept screaming at me when I prodded it and it hardly made a dent. Then I took that hacksaw to it and it probably took me about 15mins to get through less than 0.5 inch. 

Chris

[NickG]

Use some free cutting steel instead mate. Bogs has mentioned stuff like this before, it's a false econonmy as it will take you longer and blunt more expensive tools hacking through this rock hard stuff what ever it is. Get something that you know machines nicely it will make the job easier, more enjoyable and take a lot less out of your machines and tooling.

Nick

[raynerd]

I understand what you are saying but it is a bit disappointing when I have the steel here infront of me to go out and buy some free machining steel!    But then like you say, I guess the cost of the machining steel needed will be less than the price of new tooling if I attempt to cut through this stuff.

To be fair, it did rough up relatively well on the scale of it and also drilled OK for the centre, especially once the top coat was off. It is just far too large a dia to part off. Would the chop saw even cut this dia steel or is it too large or dangerous?

Chris

[Darren]

Chris,

Have you any idea what this bar was in a previous life? What did it come from, does it have any shape other than round?

3" is getting a bit much with a fiber chop saw. The problem is the heat generated which expands the bar and traps the blade.
Traps as in clamps it dead.....

My hobby bandsaw would complain too, the blade would probably keep coming off. A power hacksaw would just get on with it.
You really need to know how hard it is, you have hand sawn half an inch so it can't be that hard. But even with a hardened shaft the centre is usually still soft.

I have cut some very hard shafts, but I used a Rage saw which had no probs at all.

[raynerd]

Hi Darren, I appreciate your reply. No, haven`t a clue what it was in a previous life, it was literally sitting in the mud at a local scrappy (I have just discovered), it is about 3" thick and about 9" length. Straight bar, looks like just a pure offcut, absolutely no markings or any shape. I`ve managed to get the best part of 1/2inch but actually probably more like 20minutes. It started going easier but I physically can`t attempt the entire three inch - not much fun after 2-3mins, never mind another two hour of it! I was going to post pictures last night of progress but didn`t make much 

I`ll give it a go, perhaps taking it easy, say an inch a time and then let it have a bit to cool + oil? I`ll be honest, I`m more determined to use it now than go and buy more steel.   

Chris

[bogstandard]

Darren is correct with his statement, about where it has come from and about the cutting problems.

The secret to using recycled material is recognising what you have got in your grubby hands, and working out what you can do with it.

You can use big hard lumps like this for all sorts of jobs, if you have the big hard machinery and tooling to do it with.

Now say you had to mill a 2mm wide slot across it, you wouldn't stand a chance. Those are the times you use known materials that you know you can machine to fine limits.

My stashes are full of bits waiting for the right job to come along, where I will know I will be able to machine it down to what is required. If I have any doubts at all as to whether I can get the part out of it, I won't use it.

You have most probably seen me cutting metal with sparks flying off it, to me that comes under the heading of normal machining, and I have the equipment that can handle that sort of thing, and I can control it, but for most, that sort of machining isn't possible.

Starting with a lump of unknown, and HOPING to get good results is pushing it a little.

Bogs

[Darren]

I have to agree with John,  you really do need the right equipment for tougher stuff.

My lathe was designed for an industrial environment and as such it can handle hardened materials quite easily. My little 7x12 wouldn't have a hope, it might even brake trying.

I have no idea how strong the Boxford is or how it would cope? I guess you can only try.

Milling on my Sealey drill/mill was just about a no-go from the start. It honestly could not cope with the stresses. That is why I used the shaper to make my QCTP with even though it's a small shaper at 7" it deals with hardened materials with ease.

But having said that, if you can lathe the hard skin off on the lathe milling should be fine. It just depends how thick the hard skin it and if you are left with enough material to make your piece.

But we still don't know if you sample is hardened at all, 3" would be tough for anyone to hand saw and small machines. I'm guessing that having cut 1/2" by hand then it's not that hard. I couldn't barely scratch my QCTP material with a hand saw, even half way through where it was softer.

Try filing it, does the file do it's job or does it just skid on the surface?

[Darren]

To give you some further idea about hard materials when I lathed the outer skin of the QCTP I found I had to use tipped tooling with very high speeds or it simply wouldn't cut.
I think I used about 2,500 rpm but it might have been 3,000.

1,000 just blunted the tips. Feed was fast, I'm guessing this moved the cutting edge away from the heat into cooler material faster. The hear generated was so high the swarf caught alight and turned to a burnt powdery dust.

But the finish was almost like a high finish chrome. Very nice, certainly needed no further finishing.

Some people will say don't do it, find a different material. But I enjoyed the learning experience and lived to tell the tale...

Last night I turned some 3" free cutting steel to make a replacement part for my ongoing pillar drill re-build. That was so easy peasy in comparison and I turned that at around 750rpm.

But there is no way I would cut that by hand. I was having trouble parting my piece last night so I got the hand saw out. I gave up very quickly and this was free cutting steel.
I struggled with parting on the lathe but got it done. Took a while though, prob more than the rest of the turning/drilling job. I really want one of those tipped parting tools John has shown us.

What I'm trying to say is, if my lathe struggles then you have little hope by hand....even with free cutting steel at 3"

[NickG]

Handsawing 3" of steel is a bit monotomous and a PITA but I've done it a few times for flywheels. Just use a new blade, and some cutting oil and go steady. I'll be doing 2 1/4" for my rocking engine as don't have a power hacksaw. Annoying as well as it might take an hour to do it, time which could be spent better. Might be able to part it off, can't remember, think it's quite tough and parting still scares me a bit!

Nick

[Darren]

Wow Nick, you have my admiration  

I suppose if anyone wants thick materials cut we could club together and buy a 3" or bigger bar. I'd order it in and would be happy to cut sections off for anyone who needs it for a project. Perhaps a group QCTP project?

If there is enough interest I'll look into it.

Or just bring your bar to me and I'll happily cut it for you into as many sections you want for the price of a new blade. In fact bring a blade......

The mill is there if you need to cut dovetails too....but only if you own your own mill cos I don't want any newbies crashing my baby..... again use your own cutter or make a group buy etc....

[raynerd]

The mill is there if you need to cut dovetails too....but only if you own your own mill cos I don't want any newbies crashing my baby..... again use your own cutter or make a group buy etc....

lol, I own a mill but could probably quite succesfully crash yours lol 

I`ve just been out actually and purchased 5 new 14" steel blades for my chop saw, the other was getting worn. Hadn`t used it much but was a bit clogged from where I had previously been incorrectly cutting ally. I`m in no rush so I`ll see how I get on with them, perhaps cut an inch then let it cool for a good while.

The boxford seems to be cutting it OK, it certainly started to get into it once the top layer came off. I don`t know if it helps identify it, but once the top layer came off (like little splinters) it started curling off in small ribbons and then with a fine cut, curling off in very long ribbons. I`ve put a file to it like you said and it cuts into it, a good few seconds with a rought file and I was starting to create a flat spot. I don`t know if that helps identify it. Just one thing, I did notice a few small sparks flying when I was cutting it on my lathe towards the end - I think it was getting a little hot!

I was planning on getting my shaper up and running in time for this but it will have to be on the mill as the shaper is proving to be more of a pain in the ass then I was expecting. I got the 1ph motor but trying to remove the pully and replace with the original pully is hard work!! I think I may need to create some brackets. Anyway a bit offtopic.

I let you know how it goes. 

[NickG]

Darren, I wouldn't mind a few flywheel blanks! I'm in Wales next week but unfortunately South Wales and I've heard it's quite a big place 

When I've sold my horizontal milling machine i should have some funds for a power hacksaw, rotary table and maybe tool post! Might have to make the tool post though  I have a dovetail cutter but can't remember what angle!

How is the pulley fastened Chris? usually a key way and grub screw I think.

Nick

[Darren]

Nick, and all others reading...

The offer is there, my hacksaw deals with 4" dia quite well, the biggest I've tried so far but I gather it'll go to 6".

The only real issue is getting stuff back and forth. Yep Wales is a big place sure enough and I'm a long way from South.

Maybe we can form a chain between visitors in various areas. From here to Chester is easy enough, and from there to Manchester might be do-able? But it would be slow.

Only other option would to be buy a bar and sell it by the inch, so to speak, but have you seen the price of a 3" dia 3mt long bar....... enough to make your hair curl....


There must be others on here dotted around that can help out, other saws I mean.....speak up...........help each other out......

[bogstandard]

Darren,

Mine has already been put to use by other people, and anyone else who is passing is quite welcome to have a cutting party, anytime.

Bogs

[Gerhard Olivier]

Mine sais it can do 4 " most i've done is 60mm (Bandsaw not hacksaw)

Im in Ludlow offer is open if it would help anybody?


Gerhard

[DICKEYBIRD]

Comment on the chopsaw aluminum (aluminium) cutting subject:

It was mentioned on another forum that aluminum plate could be cut with carbide blades intended for use with wood cutting "Skil" saws, chop saws, etc.  I bought a $20 used Sears Craftsman compound miter (chop) saw and then picked up this 10" 80T carbide blade for it on sale for $15. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=38544

I needed to cut some usable chunks off a 2"x4"x36" 6061 bar I was given (!!!) and decided to try it.  Unbelievable results!  I clamped the bar solidly to the saw base and it cut smoothly through it like butter.  I wore a welding jacket, ear plugs and a face shield because a torrent of hot chips flew everywhere.  The noise was incredible as well. 

The cuts were vastly quicker, smoother, and squarer than my bandsaw could ever cut.  I'm not sure what the saw's rpm is but I think at least 4000 rpm.  I cut 6 3" chunks off the bar and examined the blade when finished and there was no damage at all.  This was my own personal experience...YMMV.