Author Topic: Optimum Lathe and Mill  (Read 377 times)

Offline ddmckee54

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Optimum Lathe and Mill
« on: July 18, 2022, 04:34:47 PM »
One of the projects that I am doing with here at work involves some of the equipment in one of our maintenance machine shops.

We have an Optimum Optiturn D330 lathe that the nameplate claims is 230/460V 3 phase.  We also have an Optimum Mill TMM200B, also nameplate rated at 230/460V 3 phase.  Both of these are currently being powered off of an ancient 460V/230V 45KVA 3 phase transformer that needs to go for a couple of reasons.  First, because the transformer is hanging off a wall that we need to move, and second because the transformer core is delaminating and buzzing - very loudly.

Our initial plan was to rewire the machines to 460V 3 phase, since that's what the majority of the plant runs on.  This should have been a simple matter of changing the taps on the control transformers and rewiring the motors from 230V to 460V.  We were able to determine that both of these units were sold by Grainger, but have since been discontinued.  Other than that, there's very little information available on the web.  Best laid plans of mice and men and all that crap.

THE LATHE - We were able to change the transformer taps on the lathe with no problems.  We ran into trouble on the lathe motor.  There only one junction box on the motor, with 3 wires on both the line side connections, and the motor side connections in this junction box.  All the instructions in the junction box are in Chinese, as near as we can determine the instructions tell us how to hook up the motor in a Wye or a Delta configuration.

THE MILL - When we opened up the control panel for the mill we found that the manufacturer's label for the control transformer had fallen off and been disposed of.  The prints that we found for the mill show that the transformer has a split secondary, with both 110V and 24V connections - but no other information on the transformer.  The mill motor's junction box on the other hand DID contain the information for the 460V connections - in English.

So, we've got a lathe that we can't rewire to 460V because of the motor connections, and a mill that we can't rewire to 460V because of the transformer connections.  I'm wondering if there's anybody out there with one of these lathes, or mills, with it running on 460V 3 phase that can show me what the required wiring changes would be?  My electricians don't want to let out the magic smoke and neither do I.

Thanks,
Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2022, 05:02:39 PM »
Not an ideal solution but can you not replace both motors so that you are starting with known connections.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2022, 05:20:49 PM »
Replacing the motor on the lathe, and the control transformer on the mill is one of the options that I'm looking into. 

What we've got is SUPPOSED to be capable running on either voltage without any new parts, that is the preferred solution.  But until we get more information on the lathe and mill, we'll just install a different transformer leave them at 230V 3 phase.

Don 
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Online John Rudd

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2022, 04:26:06 AM »
THE LATHE….

OK, it runs 2xx V 3 phase or 4xx V 3 phase….that suggests it’s a dual voltage motor with 9 leads….3 per phase…you should be able to configure it to run off the higher voltage by having the winding in series…




Continued….
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Online John Rudd

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2022, 04:30:15 AM »
How many connections are there on the con. Transformer..?

If it’s just a straight 2, for 220v, if you have a Neutral from your 460 3 ph, just use a N and a phase….

You may have to change it….

THE MILL

So you got 460 wired for the motor….the transformer has 2 pri windings at 110V, if so connect in series and slap across a phase and Neutral as per the lathe….

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Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2022, 10:25:38 AM »
For the lathe, there are only 3 leads going into the motor windings, that's what's thrown us for a loop.  The diagram inside the lathe motor junction box shows us how to connect the lathe motor in either a delta, or a wye configuration - but no mention of voltage.  Unless that is what the Chinese characters are trying to tell us, but that's not very helpful.  The lathe's control transformer still has it's ID tag so we were able to determine how to rewire it to a 460V primary.

The mill's control transformer is the one with the missing ID tag, and it has at least 8 tap connections on it.  They are numbered, but without the tag we've got no clue how they are inter-connected.  Or how they should be re-connected to configure the mill for 460V.  The mill's motor does have the normal number of leads coming out of the windings, AND a connection diagram in English, so we could easily re-wire it to 460V.

The Hammond factory had a 460V primary - 230V secondary 15KVA 3 phase transformer on the shelf, which is more than big enough for the combined 5HP of these two machines.  So we got it and are currently installing it, that way we can get the machine shop back in operation ASAP.

But I'd still like to know how to be able to hook these machines directly up to 460V.

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Online John Rudd

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2022, 11:14:51 AM »
If there are three leads going into the box, then it sounds like it’s wired in Star for HV, the Star point would need to be brought out and the ends separated to connect it in Delta ( that would be 6 leads…)  that would be the LV option….but that’s not how it’s running at the moment is it?

You might have to swap out the motor for a proper 460V job….and the mill….a proper 460 V control transformer….as there’s no supporting docs for wiring…


Best of luck… :zap: :zap:
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2022, 11:19:06 AM »
If you photograph the Chinese text you can use Google Translate to decode it

Worked quite well when I had a vaguely similar problem
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 04:06:09 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2022, 02:03:58 PM »
John:
Replacing the motor on the lathe, and the control transformer on the mill will probably be what happens the next time either of them gets relocated.  We know the lathe motor is 2Hp, but we couldn't find any frame information - might just have to guess at that. 

The mill's control transformer is kind of specialized with both a 110V, and a 24V secondary.  That would be a long lead-time item, so I'm looking into 2 transformers - a 460V/110V and a 110V/24V.  (I could get them overnight if I wanted.)  The existing control transformer is about the right physical size to be a 1KVA transformer, which would be more than big enough for the controls of that machine.  But I'm not sure what all is on the 110V side and what's on the 24V side.  They are separately fused, but they are both fused at 10A so that doesn't help a lot.  I know the DRO is 110V, and the mill's got power feeds on X&Y, and they've got one that's still in the box for the quill.  I haven't checked on them yet, but they're just little pancake motors so they could go either way - 110V or 24V.  I DO know that I don't have enough room in the panel for a pair of 1KVA transformers.

Andrew:
I didn't know that you could feed Google translate an image, how do you do that?

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Online John Rudd

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2022, 02:35:36 PM »
Re the transformer…if you got 3 ph 460, do you have access to a Neutral from the supply? If that’s the case then you could use a 220V pri, to 110/24 control tranny…?

Re the motor, the lathe is likely a Euro import..so the likelihood is the motor will be a frame 90/100 for something like a 2hp motor…check the shaft diameter, that’d be a clue…

Hope this helps..
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2022, 03:19:15 PM »
And if Google doesn't work out, there are also actual humans who can translate Chinese, like (random Googled, well no Startpaged:) https://www.altalang.com/translation-services/traditional-chinese-technical-translation/
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2022, 03:34:50 PM »


Andrew:
I didn't know that you could feed Google translate an image, how do you do that?

Don


https://support.google.com/translate/answer/6142483?hl=en-GB&co=GENIE.Platform%3DiOS
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Optimum Lathe and Mill
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2022, 10:21:57 AM »
For everyone who replied, thanks for the effort.

I haven't checked the machine shop yet, but by now the plant electricians should have completed the rotation checks and have everything turned back on - running on the new 460V primary/230V secondary 15KVA 3 phase transformer.  They were just about ready yesterday afternoon at quitting time, all they had left were the rotation checks for the lathe and the mill.

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.