Beaver milling machine

[Darren]

I've been offered a Beaver milling machine for about the same price I could sell my current Sealy miller for....

I have to say I'm tempted, it's apparently got a slightly bigger table than the briggy and is in excellent condition.
The downfeed pin has sheared, common briggy problem they seemed to have copied. I seem to remeber Bernd fixed the one on his????

Two cross feed speeds and he can deliver.....it's local.

What do I do???

Oh hum.....I really don't know.....

[Bernd]

Yes Darren I did a fix on my Briggy. Common problem I found out if you try to use the down feed for a drill larger than 1/4". Says so right in the manual not to use drills over 1/4" dia. The down feed should be used more for a boring head than drill anyway. If you need to drill a large hole use either the manual down feed or use the up feed on the table.

I'd say go for it. You can always mill small stuff on a large table, but you can't mill large stuff on a small table. I think it goes something like that. At least Bogs would probably say that. 

And if I recall right you now have a bigger workshop to put it in, right.

Bernd

[Darren]

Thanks Bernd,

Can you use the manual down feed with the pin sheared? Just untill it's fixed. I ask cos I'd have to sell the Sealey miller to provide the funds and it makes a nice drilling machine with it's indexable table.

Can the larger machines also do this?

I have a pillar drill for normal jobs but I'm concerned about precision drilling?

I am very, very tempted.....I certainly wouldn't be looking to upgrade would I. Yes got a bigger room for such a thing now.

[Darren]

Oh, it's got a int30 head, could I put a 19mm collet in it and used a 19mm ER32 collet holder to keep my exising tooling without too much cost?

I think I could do that but have to ask. I have some thinking to do........

[Bernd]

Thanks Bernd,

Can you use the manual down feed with the pin sheared? Just untill it's fixed. I ask cos I'd have to sell the Sealey miller to provide the funds and it makes a nice drilling machine with it's indexable table.

On the Bridgeport you can still use the manual quill feed to bring the spindle down. I wouldn't know about the Beaver milling machine but would assume so.

Can the larger machines also do this?

Don't quite understand this question. Got a pic perhaps?

I have a pillar drill for normal jobs but I'm concerned about precision drilling?

I would first use a small drill as a pilot drill and then use the up table feed screw for the larger drill.

One thing you have to remember these machines were made more for milling and boring than drilling very large holes. So the feed mechinism is going to be on the weak side.

On your post about the int30. I can't answer that question since my spindle has  Kiwk Change tooling. A whole nother animal altogether.

Hope this helps Darren.

Bernd

[Darren]

Thanks Bernd, I think you have answered my question.

I was refering to,....say a had a piece that needed two or more holes, say 10, I assume the mill table can be indexed to drill these holes precisely where these where required with great accuracy?

I guess what I'm asking is can it be used as a drilling machine in that way, thereby making my Sealey mill/drill redundant so I can let it go to free up funds and space.

Thanks for your help, much apreciated.

[Darren]

Ah, this answers that question, cept I'd need to find a int30 instead....looking good so far....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ER32-collet-chuck-INT-40-shank-PRECISION_W0QQitemZ370213429597QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item563270a15d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1688%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[bogstandard]

Darren,

To answer your question, I don't have a drilling machine, all mine is done with the mill.

It just takes a lot longer than it would with a drilling machine.

ISO 30 is a standard used in industry, and I think you will be hard pushed to find the tooling at the same sort of prices you will find for our general use of MT or R8.

Your thought of using adapters to use your original tooling defeats the object of moving to a larger more rigid precision machine. As soon as you use an adapter, precision and rigidity tend to go out of the door. They should only be used in a dire emergency to get yourself out of a fix, not to convert a machine from one standard to another. But it is up to you whether you go that route.

When I bought my machine, I also considered this one

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/model_t_universal.htm

It was great because it had a horizontal spindle as well, but I soon realised that my toolholding and tooling costs would triple instantly because of the industry standard tool fitting. So that choice was rejected

If you want to take the plunge and go down that route, you might be able to reduce the cost by searching for industrial machine and tooling auctions, rather than the hobby tooling distributors.

If you want to use adapter sleeves, then Chester do them on this page under the sleeves heading

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/tool_holding.htm

I hope that this has helped.

John



 

[Darren]

Thanks John,

Yes that has helped, I get the general idea of what you are saying....if I got for it then I will have to consider those options based on cost alone.

Saying that I have seen the tooling sold in bunches on Ebay from time to time going for a song...I'll do some studying...

[Darren]

I have found an int 30 er32 collet holder, that'll do me. Should be no loss of accuracy with that.

Now I need to go and look at the machine itself.....

The boss says ok btw......

[bogstandard]

Darren,

I think Chester is about the best of the small model engineering ones to find the tooling. If you look on the same page as I showed before, they have a few bits at reasonable prices (if you can call double the cost of a MT tool reasonable).

If and when you get it, you just won't believe the difference from your mill drill, and you thought that was a rigid machine.


Best of luck


John

[CrewCab]

If and when you get it, you just won't believe

how much we will all hate you  ...................    .................... seriously though Darren, just go for it mate 

Not too long ago someone showed me a Bridgeport in action ........... the difference between a Bridgy and my X2 is like comparing a skateboard and a Golf R32 

CC

[Darren]

Thanks John, as long as I have a way of holding ER32 collets then I'm mostly sorted.....I think....

I have to see it yet and give it a once over, not that I would know how 

But hopefully I have learnt something from my last two machines.....

Fingers crossed, if it's tidy...then it's mine....

I found this if anyone cares to see what they look like, takes a while to load mind......

http://www.fleetradioproducts.com/mill/

[John Stevenson]

Not too long ago someone showed me a Bridgeport in action ........... the difference between a Bridgy and my X2 is like comparing a skateboard and a Golf R32 

CC

And the difference between a Beaver and Bridgeport is the same again.
Far sturdier machine, decent feed gearbox instead of one made by Timex, box ways, no skimpy dovetails.

I have a Bridgeport and if it wasn't for the fact it would cost me about 3 days to swap machines over I'd dump this bastich for a Beaver in a heatbeat.

I also have a CNC Beaver which is even bigger than the manual one, 16" in the Y and 32" in the X travels.  - It's butiful..

John S.

[Darren]

You know that's funny,,,,

The chap has a Beaver and a Briggy for sale, says the Beaver is bigger and in good condition. The Briggy on the other hand is a "bit worn" esp the lead screws and a has few bed marks.

He wants double for the Briggy over the Beaver....??


BTW, I read the Beaver is also designed to mill in climb mode, something to do with double leadscrew nuts or sumut....

[John Stevenson]

It's all in the name.

People will alway choose Myford over Boxford, Bridgeport over Beaver, etc.

Take a CVA lathe, a UK copy of the Monach 10EE cost about 25 K when new and when a Colchester was about 900 notes.

The Colchester will now fetch £2500 and the CVA will fetch about £900


John S.

[Bernd]

I was refering to,....say a had a piece that needed two or more holes, say 10, I assume the mill table can be indexed to drill these holes precisely where these where required with great accuracy?

I think I now know what your asking. I'm assuming that the Sealey must have any easy way to index a given amount you can set for hole to hole distance. If this is the question then I have to say NO for the Bridgeport. You would need a DRO and have it set for your hole distance and you would have to manually crank the handle to go from one hole to the next.

Bernd

[Darren]

Sorry Bernd, that wasn't it, I prob made it more complicated than need be....


Simply what I was asking was can the Briggy be used as a pillar drill.......

Forget the positioning bit..

[Bernd]

Yes, the Bridgeport can be used as a drill press. You can use auto feed up to a 1/4" drill or manually if you go bigger in drill size. A stop can also be set if you need to drill several holes to a certain depth up to 5" deep. If you need longer depth holes then you can use the table by rasing it.

Hope this has been helpful.

Bernd

[Darren]

Very, thanks Bernd that's exactly what I needed to know....

[kvom]

I almost never use the power quill feed for drilling.  With the manual feed you get feedback.  The machine just plows ahead.  I do use it all the time for boring,

[John Stevenson]

Yes, the Bridgeport can be used as a drill press. You can use auto feed up to a 1/4" drill or manually if you go bigger in drill size.

Hope this has been helpful.

Bernd

A Bridgeport is a drill press without the power feed.
Purists say that it's a tool room machine and not for hogging metal which I would accept IF someone can show me the fine feed measurement for the quill other than the fitted 5" ruler?

I'm then told you move the bed up but how can you use a knee feed when you have the head tilted to 30 degrees for boring out valve seat inserts in a hemispherical head ? Elliptical valve seats anyone ?

I'm then told you hold the work on an angle plate, so why the nod and tilt head ?

John S.

[bogstandard]

That is a very good point you have there John.

I had never thought of that problem, but of course, up to now, I haven't had to or been asked to do anything like that.

It doesn't really matter on my smaller clone machine, as it has neither the nod or the power downfeed on the quill. So it has to be done by hand feeding.


It really comes to the fore when experience shines through.


John

[Bernd]

Sounds like the Bridgeport is a very versitale machine then with all the different ways to feed a cutting tool into the work. 

Bernd

[John Stevenson]

John,
It's not about the power feed on the head at all but the lack of knowing how far the quill has travelled.
All a Bridgeport has is a 5" ruler stuck on the front, you can engage the gearbox [ if it still works after using it to power feed  a 3/8" drill  ] and use the handwheel but it's not graduated.

The clones often fit a graduated collar onto this so you know where you are going, even my old much aligned mill drill had a graduated collar.

So IF a Bridgeport is the ultimate tool room machine why hasn't it got such a feature ?

John S.