Author Topic: Making a d bit reamer question...  (Read 15085 times)

Offline seanol

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Making a d bit reamer question...
« on: June 13, 2009, 11:09:23 PM »
Hi,
I am trying to get some info on making a d bit reamer. I have G. Thomas' two books but I have a need for some clarification on some points.

I need a .250 and a .375 reamer. If I purchase drill rod (or silver steel) will it be sized correctly? Could I turn a larger piece to size and hope to get close? (tough question since you have no way of knowing my capabilities I know...)

With the stock the right size I believe the text indicates removing about .001 to .003 material past center and grinding about 7 degrees of clearance. At that point I am thinking that I will heat to a non magnetic state, plunge into water straight up and down. Polish and heat to a straw color at the tip and stone an edge.

Is it that easy?

I know that 2 reamers are relatively inexpensive but SWMBO will not cut loose any funds for toys. The use for these reamers is to ream the holes on a conrod for a .60 Crusader engine I am building. I can get to within .001 on turning usually but I am worried about spring of the work piece and I don't think I can grind a boring bar that small.

I am excited if it works out because I do like the idea of making tools instead of buying them. I just don't want to bite off more that I can chew and I have no way to currently measure a bore that small accurately.

Thanks for looking,
Sean

Offline DavesWimshurst

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 01:05:37 AM »
Sean,
The drill rod Ive purchased has been on size or even a little oversize, much less than a thousandth.  It is hard to get a real smooth finish when turning down from a larger diameter.  Assuming you get your reamer made you still won't know the exact size it will cut until you try it in the material your using for the rod.  Making a test piece is one way to know.  A plug gauge turned in free machining steel can be used to test the size,  turn the first 1/4 inch to 0.001 smaller,  then a step of the target size and a step of 0.001 oversize.  However you finish the holes do them first and fit the shaft to the hole.

Regarding heat treat for drill rod your basically correct for the water hardening type,  oil hardening is quenched in oil which is less drastic than water.  I usually use the water hardening.  You are supposed to hold the red heat for several minutes,  what I do is heat to non magnetic and try to maintain that color for about five minutes or so then quench in water.  It should be harder than a file at this stage.  Then sandpaper the tool avoiding the actual cutting edge and temper by gently heating the shank end watching the colors travel to the tool tip.  Practice on a piece of similar size to your tool

An easier style of reamer just has the end ground off at an angle,  I've seen reamers discussed on this and other boards before, try the search function.

One other point is these tools won't stand up to much heat so grind carefully and keep the cutting speed down.

I hope this little bit helps,  I've made lots of small tools from drill rod, most successful, and some failures but you never know till you try.

Dave

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 01:57:24 AM »
Hi Sean

When you section the reamer you you make it a 2 to 3 thou above centre.

One tip for when you anneal it back, the colour changes come on you very very quickly, one way to slow the change down is to anneal it on a bed of sand, just put some dry sand in a tin put the reamer on top and heat the sand from underneath and watch for the colour change.

Good luck

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline seanol

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 02:14:02 AM »
Guys,
Thank you for your advice.

DavesWimshurst:
If I turn to slightly oversize, cut and harden, can I grind it to size in the lathe? I am going to mount the dremel tool I have in my tool post and I was going to slowly approach size, checking with a micrometer. Will this have accuracy issues outside of .001? I just reread the section on boring tools and found I did err on the wrong side of center. My idea is to grind to size, lock the headstock of the lathe and use the cross slide to grind the side and back relief at the the 6 degree angle. Then I was going to grind the face down to about .006 above center.

Since the con rod is aluminum and the crank pin is steel I am thinking that the fit might not be that critical. Is .001 good enough?

Could you get a tight fit and lap to size on the crank pin itself?

sbwhart:
Thank you for the tip. I don't have a tin to heat up, could I use some mild steel with sand on top? My idea would be to set a plate of .375 material on 2 fire bricks and heat from the bottom with the part on a bed of sand on top. How do you go about making the heating even?

Thank you both for your help and I will document the making when I get to it.

Regards,
Sean

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 05:41:24 AM »
Hi Sean

Putting it on a pile of sand will be OK what your doing is increasing the mass your heating up slowing down the rate rate of temp change.

Have fun

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

bogstandard

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2009, 08:00:47 AM »
I saw your post yesterday, so I waited until this morning, while I am still tidying up my shop, to show you how I make them.
Everything what the others have said, I do, except that now I grind the half diameter using my surface grinder. I tend to attempt to get the bit exactly half the diameter, only because I have the facilities to grind it very accurately, if I was grinding by hand, I would err on the high side, as suggested by the others.
To me a D-bit is a temporary tool, only used for maybe a few holes at most, so unlike the others, I rarely temper after hardening, unless I think the tool will be used again or reshaped by grinding in the future, or if it is going to be removing a lot more than a few thou that they are usually used for. I just polish up the surface and grind away to shape.

Only ever dress the cutting edge from the top flat face, and very gently, you don't want to be removing too much metal. I tend to stick with a fine Arkansas stone with thin oil as the lubricant, only because that I find diamond laps tend to clog up too quickly when used on steel, and also they have a tendency to remove too much metal.


This is my collection that I have saved over the years, a lot of the ones I make, I throw away after they have finished the job.




This shot shows the front rake that I use.




To me, one of the most important bits is to relieve the front cutting face on the right hand side.




I relieve away just over half the width, unless it is a round nose tool, then I try to get it spot on centre.




You can just make out the cutting face on this shot.




As Dave and Stew have said, there are many ways and methods to make D-bits, and everyone has their own favourite way to grind them up and heat treat them. My way is just one of many. You just have to find what works for you and stick with it.

Making tapered D-bits require a slightly different technique as you don't know when you have ground down to half diameter. If you need to know about that, just let us know.


Bogs
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 08:10:19 AM by bogstandard »

Offline Pelallito

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 08:25:35 AM »
John,
Please tell us about making a tapered D Reamer.  I will be trying my hand at that soon and could not pass up on your offer!
Thanks again.
Regards,
Fred

Offline DavesWimshurst

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2009, 10:10:46 AM »
Sean,
A dremel tool mounted in the lathe may not be rigid enough to grind the d-bit shape, at least I never got one to make a decent finish when I tried it many years ago. 

You want some clearance in your bearing about one and a half to two thousandths or lubrication may fail and the surfaces may gall.

I wouldn't try lapping the rod because the abrasive may embed itself in the softer aluminum wearing out the crank pin.

I would first try just milling the d-bit shape and stoning the flat top surface after hardening.

Hope I haven't confused the issue.
Dave

Offline seanol

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2009, 12:35:35 PM »
Gentlemen,

Mr. sbwhart:
Thanks. I will try that if I temper.

Mr. Bogstandard:
Thank you. I have G. Thomas' books and they agree exactly to what you have shown. It is hard to envision this without the pics you have provided. Your experience is invaluable and makes it seem less daunting. It is only a hole in aluminum but lessons learned here should make for fewer pieces to be recycled in the scrap bin! :bang:

DavesWimshurst:
No confusion. I am going to try to mill the flat a couple thousandths oversize, harden and slowly take off the rest with the dremel. If that doesn't work I can use the grinder to get the rest. When I try for the fit in the conrod I can always try polishing the crank pin with scotchbrite. This is how we used to do it on crankshafts to get the last couple of tenths for bearing clearance. The conrod rides directly on the crank pin so I am still wondering how I know I have the right fit. I figure if I ream the hole with a measured reamer and polish the crank pin to about .002 under reamer size I should be there?

I believe that one of the main reasons I got involved with this hobby was to learn something to pass along to my kids and enjoy working with them in the shop when they get older. I hope as my experience toolbox grows I can pass along the lessons you folks have so freely passed along here. You have definitely demystified the mysterious!
 :nrocks:

bogstandard

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2009, 03:17:30 PM »
Fred,

Cutting the taper wasn't the problem, that was done with the topslide set over. It was when it came to making it half thickness my problems started.

I struggled for ages trying to get a decent tapered D-bit, making sure everything was truly level when cutting it to half diameter, but it always came down to where you measure the half diameter along the length.

The normal method was to half the diameter of the original blank and measure that. Unfortunately, because of wear on chucks, concentricity could not be guaranteed, and you could be a few thou out, and you stood the chance that the cutting face would be below centre.

The solution was totally obvious and a thing that never occured to me (being a young smart arsed engineer who knew everything). Then a chappie in the model shop saw me struggling, clipped me round the ear and said 'use you brains lad, cut a spigot top or bottom'. It had never occured to me to cut a datum face to work to after the taper was finished either at the small, or the large end of the taper, depending which was the easiest to do. So the sketch shows how I do long tapers, for a short taper, I would cut a datum at the thick end and measure there.

I seems totally obvious to most people to do it that way, but I had a complete mental blockage on how to solve the problem. It was after that, while working in the model shop, that I started to absorb knowledge from the experienced ones, rather than gathering all my information from books. Books are good, but for working knowledge, experience is better.


Sean,

Dave has a very valid point about the Dremel as a grinding unit.

It would be OK for very small projects, but it might really overwhealm it trying to remove that much metal to make a D-bit. You really need something with a substantial bearing surface for toolpost grinding

I always turn mine to almost size, then gently emery it down to finished size. But the emery must be used with a rigid backing board, otherwise you will get undulations along the length of the bit.

A well made D-bit will perform just as well as a reamer if it is made well, but don't go running around trying to achieve tighter and tighter tolerances. In most circumstances, a running clearance is required for parts to work in unison. Make then too tight, and expansion will soon tighten a tight running fit into a siezed up solid lump.

Quoting Dave again, an oil film will take up on average about two thou clearance, and without that oil taking the pressure, the joint will soon gall and sieze up.

John

Offline DavesWimshurst

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2009, 04:47:55 PM »
Sean,
As a way of checking the fit without hole measuring tools consider the following.

Looking at the plans I see that the rod bearing is .375" long and the rod is 1.625" between centers. The desired clearance will allow the top end of the rod to be rocked sideways about 0.020" (0.010" each way from center)



All this assumes constant diameter of the crank pin and rod bore as Bogs cautioned. 
Hope this helps.
Dave

Offline seanol

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2009, 01:42:12 AM »
Dave,
That is exactly what I needed! I had every intention of making one today to try my technique bit had some issues with a drill, titanium and an overzealous desire to get to the d bit reamer. I think I can save the crankcase but the day is a goner :scratch:

Thank you all for your help and I will update this post when I start. It may be a little bit but I will return with either a good tool or a good story.

Either way I am learning! :smart:

Thanks,
Sean

Offline Pelallito

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Re: Making a d bit reamer question...
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2009, 04:42:55 PM »
John,
Thanks for the explanation and drawings. i will try my hand at making one tomorrow.
Regards,
Fred