Author Topic: Schaublin 125-CNC retrofit to LinuxCNC and Mesa cards. (Read 12081 times)

RotarySMP · « **on:** February 28, 2021, 08:17:25 AM »

I couldn't resist when this came up for auction..

There is not much online about such old CNC electronics, so I decided to a video as a tribute to the electronics and computor engineers of the 1970's. While it would be cool to get it going as is, without any manuals or knowledge of the schaublin interface with the Data General Nova, that is not feasible. I will remove the controller as a complete module and send it to a museum or collector. It wont get scrapped.

Muzzerboy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2021, 12:01:20 PM »

Fascinating stuff! Yours was machine #12 in 1981 judging by the label. The date codes on those ICs slightly predate that, which makes sense.

Jealous as hell, will be watching!

RotarySMP · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2021, 02:53:32 PM »

Oh yeah, thanks for pointing that out. knew there was a reason why I suspected it ws from 81, but lost track of why I thought that.
Mark

RotarySMP · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2021, 06:01:34 AM »

Well, no turning bck now...

Mark

RotarySMP · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2021, 07:00:57 AM »

Whatever cutting oil was used in this machine dried up like varnish. I am having to tear it down further than planned to clean this out, as the slides are stuck down.

Mark

philf · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2021, 05:39:01 PM »

Did you find out how the belts were tensioned?

Loving the videos.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2021, 07:59:51 AM »

There is nothing, so the belt tension is what it is. I also find that weird. There are no taper pins, so a tiny bit of slop in the screw holes can be used.
Mark

RotarySMP · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2021, 09:00:48 AM »

I pulled the Saddle off this week...

Mark

RotarySMP · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2021, 07:28:21 AM »

Made a little more progress, but also a bit of a set back:

RotarySMP · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2021, 06:02:25 AM »

I procrastinated as long as possible, but it is time to play workshop tetris.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2021, 06:04:02 AM »

Pete. · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2021, 09:03:58 AM »

Looks like there's very little grease in those bearings, but then again most people tend to over-grease them. When I put new spindle bearings into my Hardinge lathe I looked up the manufacturer's spec for the amount of grease to use and I was surprised at the small amount required - 4.6cc

RotarySMP · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2021, 09:49:10 AM »

Thanks for that. I knew it was only a small amout, like 15 or 25%, butit is nice to see the table with the amount in g. I'll use that.
Mark

philf · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2021, 05:30:33 PM »

I assume you haven't got access to the inner race of the front bearing behind the labyrinth seal. To remove front bearing would mean putting pressure on the outer race to drive off the inner race which isn't recommended bearing practice. If the bearing is very tight on the spindle you might exceed the axial loading limit and damage the bearing. If the bearings feel very smooth I'd go for injecting a small amount of grease.

Having said that the lower bearings on my mill are much smaller a/c bearings and a stuck 2 morse taper attachment takes a sharp knock on the end of the drawbar to release and 30 years of sharp knocks doesn't seem to have done the bearings much harm. (And they've never been regreased.)

RotarySMP · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2021, 05:41:21 PM »

Yeah, the only way to put force on the inner race of the front pair is through the labrynth seal, which is cast iron. I have nightmares of it going Ping, as it must hae plent of non-radiused corners.

If the belt hadn't failed, I probably would have taken my chances with the 40 year old grease. Kluber is very good quality grease.
Mark

BillTodd · « **Reply #15 on:** April 12, 2021, 05:01:57 AM »

I would not take that spindle apart !

I have replaced lathe spindle bearings on simpler lathe spindles - as you say - major pucker factor - even simple lathes have very expensive bearings !

I'd either lubricate in place or leave be.

The bearings and grease on my HLV-H are now 55 years old and still OK, I have the urge to pull them and lubricate too.

mattinker · « **Reply #16 on:** April 12, 2021, 07:42:10 AM »

Mark,

I definitely wouldn't take it apart, a long soak in solvent, I'd then try to "flush" it with diesel with your syringe before re-rinsing in solvent blow dry and grease!

"If it aint broke" ............................

Cheers, Matthew

RotarySMP · « **Reply #17 on:** April 25, 2021, 06:23:40 AM »

Thanks. Yep, that is what I did...

mattinker · « **Reply #18 on:** April 25, 2021, 09:36:49 AM »

So i saw!

Gave you a like!!

If by chance you find yourself in Paris, (Le Bourget air show?) look me up!

Cheers, Matthew

RotarySMP · « **Reply #19 on:** April 25, 2021, 10:18:54 AM »

Thanks. I went to the Paris air show once. Must have been about 1999 or so. Very cool.
Mark

BillTodd · « **Reply #20 on:** April 25, 2021, 02:51:28 PM »

Tip for pulling reluctant dowlpins , use an er collet chuck to grab the pin and threaded rod as a diy slide hammer.

awemawson · « **Reply #21 on:** April 25, 2021, 03:29:38 PM »

And when you replace them always put one in with a female extractor thread - dead easy to do, and the next bloke to come along will thank you !

(Had that issue with the powered tooling gear boxes on my CNC lathe, making a female threaded dowel was the work of minutes on the lathe.)

RotarySMP · « **Reply #22 on:** April 26, 2021, 01:00:40 AM »

Good points. I'll check if these are hardened, and if not I could drill and tap the end.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2021, 06:35:35 AM »

RotarySMP · « **Reply #24 on:** August 15, 2021, 02:39:52 PM »

Little more progress...

philf · « **Reply #25 on:** August 17, 2021, 10:58:41 AM »

Good to see another instalment of this story.

Are you keeping the variable speed drive as-is? If so, how does the control set the speed?

RotarySMP · « **Reply #26 on:** August 19, 2021, 09:59:01 AM »

I'll keep the variator as is. I have the little control board to set the speed. However, I'll use a VFD as the main speed control, as it will replace a significant number of large control relays thus taking up less cabinet space and wiring. Basically I'll have the VFD, the Variator and the backgear. Total overkill, but easier just to leave that variator in than replace it with a drive belt. I am not sure how I will implement the control logic in LinuxCNC. The speed range between the VFD and the Variator totally overlap.
Mark

ddmckee54 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 19, 2021, 11:57:32 AM »

Is the variator manually adjusted?

If so you could normally leave the variator in the upper end of its' range and use the VFD to get the spindle speed you want. Just don't run the motor rpms below 20%-25% of the full motor speed or you'll run into motor cooling issues. Below that speed the motor's fan won't be turning fast enough to move enough air to cool the motor.

The only time you'd need to adjust the variator would be if you needed a spindle speed that was above the back gear range, but that spindle speed put the motor speed below the 20-25% of full motor speed. If that happens, then crank the variator into the lower end of its' range. That would allow the VFD to bring the motor rpms up - hopefully high enough to cool the motor.

Of course this all assumes that you'll be running the motor long enough for the heat to build up enough to damage the windings. Or, that you'll be running the motor at this low speed for short periods, but with insufficient time between motor cycles for the heat to dissipate. In that case, the heat could again build up enough to damage the windings.

I installed an a 900HP compressor a few years ago that took over 25 seconds to come up to speed on start-up. It accumulated so much heat in the motor that we weren't allowed to try starting it more than 3 times in a 24 hour period - with at least 1 hour between each start-up attempt.

Don

RotarySMP · « **Reply #28 on:** August 22, 2021, 02:47:13 AM »

The way I think about it now (this might change) is that the work to hook up the variator is so limited, that I may as well.

Whether I just put a variator up and down button on the control panel and use them to manually bias the speed range like you discussed, or implement a more complex logic in LinuCNC and have it control the variator, VFD and backgear... I so far havent decided.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #29 on:** August 22, 2021, 06:03:14 AM »

Here we go again...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #30 on:** September 19, 2021, 06:01:33 AM »

Here is the latest...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #31 on:** September 26, 2021, 07:51:29 AM »

Here is a pneumatic follow up.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #32 on:** October 03, 2021, 07:53:57 AM »

I am waiting for pneumatic fittings, and so started the electrical cabinet.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #33 on:** October 10, 2021, 07:16:47 AM »

I know a lot of people swear by Plasma cutters. I just want to swear at it.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #34 on:** November 07, 2021, 06:00:10 AM »

This took a lot more work than expected...

awemawson · « **Reply #35 on:** November 07, 2021, 10:44:43 AM »

Looking excellent

RotarySMP · « **Reply #36 on:** November 07, 2021, 01:20:40 PM »

Thanks Andrew. At my pace still a lot to go, but that cabinet chop up was a milestone. From here it is mostly reassembly, wiring etc.

tom osselton · « **Reply #37 on:** November 07, 2021, 05:33:28 PM »

Nice work

RotarySMP · « **Reply #38 on:** November 08, 2021, 02:46:35 AM »

Thanks. I look forward to adding bits back in, rather than removing them.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #39 on:** November 14, 2021, 06:00:15 AM »

I was planning an other victory in the continueing struggle of Man v Machine... but then...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #40 on:** November 21, 2021, 03:38:32 PM »

This week, I got the best of the machine.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #41 on:** November 28, 2021, 06:39:49 AM »

I would have expected Schaublin to make the piston alignment pins a closer tolerance.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #42 on:** December 05, 2021, 08:39:19 AM »

Next up... that drivetrain

RotarySMP · « **Reply #43 on:** December 19, 2021, 06:01:51 AM »

RotarySMP · « **Reply #44 on:** January 02, 2022, 06:02:45 AM »

Didn't get a lot done over the holidays...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #45 on:** January 09, 2022, 08:00:15 AM »

THis time I did make decent progress on the electrics.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #46 on:** January 16, 2022, 06:01:13 AM »

A bit random this week, but I spent most of my free time learning QElectroTech. Great free software for doing industrial schematics. Still have a lot to learn.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #47 on:** February 06, 2022, 10:48:57 AM »

RotarySMP · « **Reply #48 on:** March 13, 2022, 10:35:24 AM »

I forgot to post the last video. I think for the last five weeks, I started each week thinking... "this week I will get the spindle motor running"...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #49 on:** March 20, 2022, 10:17:20 AM »

philf · « **Reply #50 on:** March 20, 2022, 03:03:22 PM »

Hi,

I'm sure (not exactly sure but would expect) that there will be connections for a braking resistor on your VFD.

My lathe is a similar size to yours and I can stop a 160mm chuck from 2,400 rpm in less than a second.

I have 2 off 220 Ohm 50W chassis mount resistors wired in parallel and fastened to a smallish finned heatsink. (Equivalent to 110 Ohm at 100W I hope.)

Cheers.

Phil.

P.S. Loving your videos.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #51 on:** March 29, 2022, 09:15:08 AM »

Thanks Phil, the Lenze brak module for this VFD is 300W, but since there is a mechanical brake mounted on the motor shaft already, I would rather just let the vfd coast down, and mechanically brake the load. Havent worked out whole to set that yet.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #52 on:** April 03, 2022, 06:00:30 AM »

I took a Uni course in machine tool design, and figured I'd try out what I learned on the Schaublin...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #53 on:** May 01, 2022, 08:04:39 AM »

I didnt post last weeks video to this thread, as it was more of an unsuccessful casting vid than a Schaublin progress report. This week is better.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #54 on:** May 08, 2022, 06:17:07 AM »

This week it is the X-Axis motor mount...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #55 on:** May 15, 2022, 07:29:13 AM »

I have never had a power chuck before...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #56 on:** June 05, 2022, 06:04:39 AM »

Bit of lathe work on the Boley required this week, but good progress...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #57 on:** June 12, 2022, 07:03:35 AM »

Some more minor steps...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #58 on:** July 17, 2022, 06:44:35 AM »

Oops, forgot to link in the last video...

It is looking more and more like a lathe...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #59 on:** July 31, 2022, 10:41:35 AM »

Bit random this week

RotarySMP · « **Reply #60 on:** August 09, 2022, 02:19:45 AM »

RotarySMP · « **Reply #61 on:** August 28, 2022, 07:30:50 AM »

A step backwards this week.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #62 on:** October 16, 2022, 05:02:14 PM »

I made a nice step forward this time...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #63 on:** November 06, 2022, 06:10:06 AM »

I forgot to link last weeks video...

and this week I worked more on mechanical bits.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #64 on:** November 20, 2022, 06:00:23 AM »

Our #1 Nico shot down my first plan for this part...

RotarySMP · « **Reply #65 on:** April 02, 2023, 08:05:30 AM »

Oops, I forgot to link the last couple of episodes.

philf · « **Reply #66 on:** April 02, 2023, 03:04:44 PM »

I was wondering when we'd see some more episodes - thanks.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #67 on:** April 06, 2023, 01:41:18 PM »

Hi Phil,
Sorry about that. I was back in NZ for a month, and also working on a few other projects.

philf · « **Reply #68 on:** April 06, 2023, 02:01:34 PM »

Quote from: RotarySMP on April 06, 2023, 01:41:18 PM

Hi Phil,
Sorry about that. I was back in NZ for a month, and also working on a few other projects.

Don't apologise!

I thought setting up Mach3 with stepper motors was complicated enough. You've put me off servos.

Cheers.

Phil.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #69 on:** April 09, 2023, 01:00:29 PM »

I am sorry to hear that. I think I am pretty lame at this stuff, and most people could do it much faster and more easily than I do it.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #70 on:** July 09, 2023, 07:39:43 AM »

Adding conversational programming is a real game changer for a home shop machine like this...

philf · « **Reply #71 on:** July 09, 2023, 02:20:37 PM »

Bugger!

Better luck with the next one.

You may have got away with it if you didn't keep taking a cut on the taper. A short parallel section wouldn't have done any harm.

When using the 4-jaw I find it easier to use 2 keys at once.

Phil.

RotarySMP · « **Reply #72 on:** August 11, 2023, 03:55:43 AM »

Thanks Phil. Good point.
It will be easier once I have the control panel set up and can more easily switch it out of back gear, but yeah, a second key would be quicker.
Cheers,
Mark.

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Author Topic: Schaublin 125-CNC retrofit to LinuxCNC and Mesa cards. (Read 12081 times)