Author Topic: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion  (Read 12007 times)

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2020, 03:35:07 PM »
I'm trying to find a 1.75mm PLA filament that's a close color match to the plastic Bruder uses in their injection molding.  I'm going to post this on a couple of different forums and hope for the best.

I've been trying to find a close match to the red they use for my Manitou 2150 RC conversion. I've found a lot that aren't red enough, I've got three or four 1Kg spools of various shades of red to use up now. I bought a spool of what was claimed to be the REDDEST red available - it's called Enzo red. Looked great on the screen, in real life on the spool - not so much!(Couldn't tell the difference between the Enzo red and the bargain basement Solid red.) I found that E-Sun's Fire Engine Red is TOOOOO red, it needs a little yellow. But, it's close enough I can live with it if I have to.

I got the Manitou 2150 at a bargain price, but it was missing few pieces - among the missing was a fender. The only replacement piece I couldn't get from Bruder was the fender, so I printed all four fenders in the grey that I had. The grey that I've got is a little too light, but it also is close enough that I can live with it.

I've got models on the shelf waiting for future conversion where I'll need the yellow that they use for their CAT models and their Liebherr models. Who knows, there might even be a need for a John Deere green in the future. (Even though I was raised on IH red and Ford blue.)

So, anybody know of any close filament matches in PLA? I'm not set up tp do ABS, and I don't want to have to deal with the smell in my living room where the printers are.

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion
« Reply #76 on: August 03, 2020, 11:43:29 AM »
Nothing of interest accomplished in the last few weeks.  I did order yet another spool of Red from e-sun, it's not a close match to the Bruder red plastic either.  I'm gonna call the e-sun fire engine red close enough even if it is too dark of a red.  I've been gathering parts to put the steering linkages together.  What a comedy of errors, MOSTLY my errors. 

I ordered a bunch of M2 ball links for the steering.  You'd think that would mean that it would be threaded for an M2 threaded rod wouldn't you?  I know that's what I thought, so I ordered an M2 tap and die so I could thread the ends of the tie rods.  I  ordered them from a US supplier so that I would not have to wait weeks for the shipping.   I apparently didn't pay enough attention to what I was doing when I ordered the tap and die set, because I ordered a LH tap and die.  I then ordered a RH M2 tap and die set, and had to wait another week for it to arrive.  By this time the ball links had arrived and I found out that while the ball is drilled to fit an M2 bolt, the link itself was un-threaded.  Not only was it un-threaded, it's ID is molded in the correct tapping diameter of an M2.5 tap.  So I ordered an M2.5 RH tap and die set and some 2.5mm rod.

On the bright side, IF in the future I EVER need to make M2 turnbuckles, I'm all set up.

I've kept the printer busy cranking out parts for a CNC router I'm designing.  I've got over half of the parts that I need to print completed.  The total printing time for the parts is about 153 hours and I have about 121 hours of that printed.  If I don't have a mess when I get home that will go to 131 hours of printed parts.  When I get all the parts printed that will be another build thread.

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2020, 11:48:54 AM »
I've been taking a break from the Manitou for a while.  I built one of these, a photoetech kit of a Gatling gun, see the 1st attachment.  This is not a picture of mine, it's a stock photo of the model.  Mine isn't quite that good, but it's close.

Now I'm working on the cutaway model of the Allison 501-D13 turbo-prop, see the 2nd attachment.  The military version of this engine it the T56 which just happens to power the C130 Hercules, my favorite cargo aircraft.

Next on the hit parade will be the little jewel that's in the 3rd attachment, a 1/3 scale visible model of the Ford 289.  I build one of the Revell Visible V-8 kits when I was a kid.  I think I saved my money for most of a year to buy that kit.  I actually got it to work which is something of a surprise since I was probably about 12 at the time.  I looked into the new version of the Revell V-8 but wasn't impressed, since it's no longer motorized.  Besides I believe the Revell Visible V-8 is based on a GM engine, the 283 I think?  I'm a Ford guy, so the 289 being Ford blue sealed the deal.

I'll get back to the Manitou when I've got this modeling phase out of my system for a while.

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2021, 02:26:31 PM »
This project isn't dead, but is is definitely off the back burner and probably even off the stove.  The bigggest problem that I had with it was the number of channels that leveling the crane properly would require.  I had come up with a work-around, but I was never really happy with it.

I recently stumbled across the work that Mick thebass has done on his YouTube channel.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbTqmHlFmasSVFomeuu0hsQ/featured   Check out his Asua dumper and CAT telehandler builds.  The man is a genius when it comes to putting 10 pounds into a 5 pound sack, AND working with Arduinos.  Since I've already got an Arduino Nano running the lights for the Manitou, at least on a breadboard, it wasn't much of a leap to start thinking about making it do more.

I've dived down the Arduino rabbit hole once again and from the research I've done, I know that having the Arduino control the servos is ALMOST dead easy.  Using the Arduino as the receiver and controlling the servos and lights are the easy parts.  I think with a few bucks worth of sensors it should be entirely possible to have the Arduino control the leveling sequence.  They are already being used in projects for autonomous control of drones.  I don't need active 3 axis control, all I need is slow speed control of the roll and pitch axis.  Yaw doesn't really matter when your vehicle is firmly planted on the ground.

I've ordered a couple of rolls of red filament that should closely match the Bruder red.  At least I think I have, but nothing has shown up yet.  I'll need to check the credit card statements to see if I need to start yelling at somebody to find out where my filament is.  Or maybe make a doctor appointment about my memory?  AHH... I'm sure it'll be fine.

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion
« Reply #79 on: September 15, 2021, 04:35:13 PM »
OK, no pictures but I do have an update.

I found several examples on the Worldy-Wide-Web illustrating how to make an Arduino level using a 6050 IMU sensor, or at least how to get the pitch and roll angles.  Most of the examples are aimed at making autonomous quad-copters using an Arduino so they need to worry about high-speed responses, dealing with propellor vibration, and gyro drift.  None of those are going to be a worry for me since this is a crane with it's feet planted firmly on the ground - figuritively speaking.  ALL movements will be SLOW and at a known rate so the gyro isn't really needed.  There will be some vibration as the leveling feet are being lowered, but since I'm only dealing with one foot at a time that should be minimal.  The gyro was used to help deal with the vibration effects on the 6050.

With the pitch and roll angles it's a short step to auto-leveling a crane.  Last night I started out-lining how to have an Arduino auto-level a crane on command.  I also ordered a bunch of parts so that I could get the system working on a breadboard.

Now I've got to find the red, grey, and black filaments and print up a bunch of parts to build a mock-up.  Then machine some parts to turn the gearboxes into linear actuators, and test all that crap.  Then rinse, lather and repeat, if/when those parts fail.  Gotta be able to test this and get all the bugs worked out before installation.

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2021, 12:16:39 PM »
Well, Iíve got good news and bad news.

The good news is that all the parts have come in so I can start experimenting with the 6050 IMU and my Nano clone, to see if I can work out an auto leveling system for the Manitou.

The bad news is that last night I did some drawing to determine how much of a pitch and roll angle the crane could be at and I would be able to level it using the outriggers with no blocking.  Turns out itís not so much.   Iíve attached a JPG of the 3D PDF since some people seem to not be able to view the PDF.   
 


In itsí current configuration the outrigger pad, circled in brown, will extend about another 3Ē to the right, actually 77mm for those of you that are Imperially challenged.  The outrigger will pivot around the location circled in blue.  The outrigger assembly is driven up and down by the ram, the yellow part right above the outrigger.  The ram will have about 3/4Ē of travel, call it 20mm.  This translates to about a 1-1/4Ē, call it 30mm, vertical travel of the leveling pad.  In itself, this is not bad.  However thereís almost 1Ē of ground clearance to the leveling pad, call it 24-25mm, so thereís less that 1/4Ē of actual vertical movement before the ram reaches the end of itsí stroke.  Iím going to have to either use blocks almost all the time, or I need to redesign the outrigger rams.

I think Iíve got 3 options on the redesign:
1) Raise the ram motors a lot Ė maybe 20-25mm!  I donít know if Iíve got room to do this and still clear the molded in counterweight.

2) Move the ram motor assembly from centered on the outrigger to the far side of the outrigger.  The far side would be away from the 2 outriggers.  This would allow me to move the point where the ram attaches to the outrigger from the top of the outrigger to the bottom.  This would give me approximately an additional 20mm of ram travel.  The additional ram travel would give me an additional 30mm of vertical travel on the pad.  The problem with this option is Iím not sure Iíve got enough clearance between the wheel and the outrigger for the ram.

3) Move the ram motor assembly from centered on the outrigger to the inside of the outriggers.  The inside would be between the 2 outriggers.  The problem with this option is Iím not sure where the ram would be in relation to the outrigger extension motor.

If I can get another 20mm of ram travel, that translates to 30mm of vertical movement for the leveling pad at full extension.  I could lower the leveling pad about 1-1/2".  Which if I measured it right means I would be able to correct for a +/-13į roll angle and/or a +/-9į pitch angle on the crane.

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Offline WeldingRod

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Re: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2021, 12:27:42 PM »
Move the blue circled pivot point inward?

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Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2021, 12:54:36 PM »
WeldingRod:

That might help, what might help more is dropping the outriggers down so that they're even with the bottom of the axles.  This would move the pivot down not in.  That would effectively give me 10-12mm more of vertical travel just by eliminating some of the ground clearance under the outriggers.  But it wouldn't be eliminating any of the crane's ground clearance since the axles are that low already.  When you add in the additional 10-12mm of ram stroke that would give me I'm probably close to the 1-1/2" movement that redesigning the ram placement would have given me - with a lot less hassle.

It's a change from the Bruder original, but they were designed as toys - not scale models.  I can live with it.
Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.

Offline ddmckee54

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Re: Bruder Manitou 2150 - RC conversion
« Reply #83 on: September 24, 2021, 01:54:56 PM »
I looked at the model last night, both the 3D version and physical one, and I came to the conclusion that my options 1-3 will NOT work.  I can't raise the outrigger ram motor, option 1, because that will interfere with the crane counterweight as it swings around.  I can move the rams to what I called the outside, option 2, because that will interfere with the fenders and wheels.  And I can't move the rams to the inside, option 3, because that will interfere with the outrigger extension motor.

WeldingRod suggested moving the outrigger pivot point in, and I thought about that, but I wasn't sure if that would be a help or a hinderance.  It did get me to thinking about moving things though.  Last night I played worked with the 3D model and lowered the outriggers 11mm so that the bottom of the outrigger was even with the bottom of the axle. 
That way I can accomplish several things.  I don't lose any ground clearance on the model, I reduce the amount of travel between the UP position of the outrigger and the ground, and I extend the outrigger ram - giving me more travel on the ram.  I'm gonna give WeldingRod the blame credit for this idea.  I've attached a screenshot of the revised 3D model.  Ignore all the extra crap - I forgot to turn it off before I saved the PDF last night.
 

The second attachment is a HIGHLY simplified front view of the Manitou.  Canít see it?  Well, at least all the important bits are there anyway.  The white rectangle at the top is the upper frame of the crane.  Below the upper frame is the outrigger, it is shown in with the outrigger fully extended,  The horizontal line that runs all the way across from one side of the screen to the other is the level ďgroundĒ.  The vertical line on the left is the outside of the tires on that side.
 

Inside the orange blobby-circly-thingy is the outrigger pivot point, this point never moves with respect to the upper frame.

Inside the magenta blobby-circly-thingy is the outrigger ram lower pivot point when the ram is retracted, the angled white line is the ram centerline when retracted.  The small white circle to the upper-left of the magenta thing is the outrigger ram upper pivot point Ė this point never moves with respect to the upper frame.  The green circle shows the path the end of the outrigger ram would follow as it is swung around the ramís upper pivot point.  The cyan circle shows the path that the ramís lower pivot point will follow at the outrigger is swung around itís pivot point.  The white line, the green circle, and the cyan circle all conveniently intersect at the same spot, the fully retracted position of the ram.

I determined that the outrigger ram has 27mm of usable travel.  Offsetting the green circle 27mm. and I get the red circle.  The stuff shown in green is with the ram fully retracted.  The stuff in red is with the ram fully extended.

The tan blobbish thing on the right contains the simplified outrigger pad, thatís the green inverted T, the pad pivot point, and line that shows the center-to-center distance between the pad pivot point and the outrigger pivot point.  The large white circle is the path the pad pivot point will follow as the outrigger ram extends and retracts.  All this crap just to get a couple of angles, and weíre still not done.

Where the red circle and the cyan circle intersect will be the position of the outrigger ram lower pivot point when the ram is fully extended.  Looking at this in the light of day I can see I made as boo-boo  19.6į does NOT equal 19.21į.  I think I know where I screwed up, when I changed the angular dimension style halfway thru the drawing - I changed it from Xį to X.XXį.  I measured the angle between the two green lines so I could determine where the pad pivot point would be with the ram extended.  It measured 5į, but it was actually 5.39į - I just measured it.  That means my measured maximum pitch&roll angles will slightly too small, probably by less than ľ - Ĺ degree.

OK Ė focus!  Back to draining the swamp.  With the pad pivot pointĎs lowest position now fixed we can find where the pad touches the ground, the red inverted T.

Assuming that the crane will pivot on the outside of the tire, we draw a line from that point to the padís assumed contact point and measure the angle.  VIOLA, we get 9.11į-ish, remember I makada slight boo-boo way-back-when.  Thatís the maximum roll angle I can hope to correct without blocks.  The vertical line on the right represents the distance between the front and rear outriggers.  When I connect the dots and measure the angle I get 7į-ish degrees as the maximum pitch angle that Iíll be able to correct without blocks.

I actually thought it would be more, but numbers donít lie.

Don
Too many irons, not enough fire.