It pays to talk - proud owner of a Box-ford Model "A" Lathe

[raynerd]

I went out for lunch a few days ago with the guys from work and I was chatting about my machining - a guy comes up to me at the end and says I have a lathe sat at the back of my garage, it was his brothers and has lots of tooling with it. He said, if I wanted it, it was mine - he would be glad to get it out of the way. Anyway, I want to visit yesterday and it turns out it a Box-ford Model "A" lathe - looks in great shape for the age. I have taken home all the tooling (I`ll post a message later to show what came with it) and I am picking the lathe up on Friday night. The timing couldn`t have been better after stomping out of the workshop in a temper a few nights ago after blowing 5 uses on my clarke cl300m stalling it trying to screw cut 12TPI in mild steel! This bigger lathe should really help me along - and the little n` is just primed for CNC`ing

I`ll keep you posted with some pics later on - just needed to get the excitement off my chest!!

Chris

[Darren]

Nice, i wouldn't say no to one of those either....good score 

http://www.lathes.co.uk/boxford/page2.html

[bogstandard]

stalling it trying to screw cut 12TPI in mild steel

If you remember Chris, I said that really those lower TPI's would be pushing your lathe to the limits. You are lucky to get away with fuses, it could have been a lot worse.

Congrats on the Boxford, they are nearly bombproof, even for you.


John

[CrewCab]

Boxfords rock 




 

and as Bogsie says, virtually bombproof 

CC

[usn ret]

Chris,  timing is everything, right time right place. Congrats.
Cliff

[sbwhart]

Nice find Chris Boxfords are the bis 

Stew

[raynerd]

John, yes your correct and understand how the hand turning will reduce the pressure on the gearing.

Can`t wait to get the boxford at home - seems in good condition as well for the age.  

Crew-Cabin - mine looks similar to that but the gearing box is switched around, so the A,B,C, D select is on the left and the table with the screw TPI is on the right.

Anyway - found a few minutes to open up all the boxes that contained the tooling with this lathe - I don`t know what half of it is, so if anyone would like to enlighten me, I would be very grateful!!

This picture shows the accessories that came with the lathe - why is such a wide range of jaws needed? Also what is the part to the bottom left with the gear on one end and a dial on the other? I guess the long flat one is a tool rest?



This is all the tooling:



Are these just drills? the one on the left is massive!!



end mills?


Taps and dies - now all the other bits look clean and like new but these are really rusty - can they be cleaned up, they feel sharp just have surface rust, or are they only fit for the bin?


Reamers and a few end-mills?


Top box is full of watch makers small tools - reamers, drills, tiny collets. Bottom box is full of what looks like tiny cutters for the lathe - I am unsure how they would be used?



???


The rest of the bits that also came - spanners, allan keys ...and also many unidentified tools



Sorry, lots of pics but if you can identify or give advice then it would be appreciated. Also, please tell me if this is too old and fit for the bin - does tooling wear? Te majority is properly stamped and marked made in England so guess it is good quality.

[John Hill]

Chris, I hate to be the one to break it to you but I think you have had a load of old rubbish unloaded on you, probably the best thing you could do would be to pack it all up and send it over (down?) to me for safe disposal!

The thingio with the dial and the little gear is thread cutting indexer,  it fits on the lathe carriage and allows you to return the carriage and to accurately regain you starting point when taking a second cut on a thread.  Rather a mystery that apparently all lathe users master one day.


The chuch with two sets of jaws has one set for outside holding of small pieces and one set of inside holding of bigger bits, wheels for example.


I guess the tool rest would be for turning wood or soft materials with hand held tools.

I think those rusy bits will be OK, maybe not a 'nice' as shiny ones but serviceable all the same. 

Congrats. Everyone is green with envy!

[sbwhart]

Chris thats all good stuff 

All tools have the potential to be useful sometime to someone just store it away, if you can't use it you can pass it onto to someone who can.   

Stew

[raynerd]

Thanks John for the info regarding the screw cutting gear.

""I hate to be the one to break it to you but I think you have had a load of old rubbish unloaded on you" - I take it that was a joke or is it really junk??

A few thoughts, I wonder what he was using the end mills for as apparently he didn`t have any more machinary when his garage was cleared! Can you get a mill post or vertical slide for these laths?

In the first image, what is at the top - it looks like a tail stock but the lathe definately has a tail stock already there.

Chris

PS EDIT: you know the picture "Reamers and a few end-mills?" is that correct, are they reamers and end-mills? Only the ones on the left are huge - 25-30cm - I should have put a rule next to them. This guy must have been doing some heavy drilling!!

[Darren]

""I hate to be the one to break it to you but I think you have had a load of old rubbish unloaded on you" - I take it that was a joke or is it really junk??

It was a joke....

You have done really, really, really well, that little lot would have cost a small fortune to get together separately...

Too many pic's in one hit, try putting one at a time with your questions and then allowing some time before putting another pic up........that way we can all take a breath between explanations 

[CrewCab]

Chris, that's just a brilliant result, and to be fair on the open market worth quite a bit ........... however that's 

I suspect your machine is imperial, the gear selector was reversed for the metric machine's (like mine) and generally, only imperial machine's have a tdi (thread dial indicator) .......... well the metric one's have 2 or 3 gears on the bottom and are about as common as "Rocking Horse Droppings" (btw if you ever "drop" on one at a fair price ......... it's mine  )AFAIK mine was built around 1971, I have a list somewhere and I'll try dig it out, if you have a scrabble around the tailstock end of the bed you should find a serial number, and from that we can probably date it, not that it's important but just because we can 

The "Haul" you've got with it is probably worth as much as the lathe, so take your time and sort it carefully ............... most of all ........... enjoy 



as for the unidentifiable bits n' bobs, ............ just wait for Bogs and JS to pop in ........... that'll sort it 

atb

CC


PS: Boxford Lathe's are a brilliant bit of kit 

[raynerd]

lol - thanks for the info!

Perhaps I should remove the photos but hey ho...I thought  and just posted the whole lot!

I look forward to picking up the lathe on Friday but I am going to step back from it, clean and set it up.  Take my time and learn to use it properly - things are moving a little fast!

Chris

[Darren]

Sorry Chris, that's not what I meant,

I was just thinking that if you were to re-submit one picture at a time it might be easier for everyone to try to describe what is in it and for us all to be taking about the same items instead of becoming confused.

It was just a thought....

Still think you have done very well....

[John Hill]

Thanks John for the info regarding the screw cutting gear.

""I hate to be the one to break it to you but I think you have had a load of old rubbish unloaded on you" - I take it that was a joke or is it really junk??

  Ooops!  Yes I was joking!  I would love to have such a handy range of bits and of course the lathe looks great too!

A few thoughts, I wonder what he was using the end mills for as apparently he didn`t have any more machinary when his garage was cleared! Can you get a mill post or vertical slide for these laths?

Maybe they were just bits that came his way and being a bone fide home machinist he put them into safe keeping until someone could use them.  I am sure you can get something or other to use for milling in the lathe, I am currently considering a few options myself while at the same time saving for a real mill.

In the first image, what is at the top - it looks like a tail stock but the lathe definately has a tail stock already there.

Sure looks like a tail stock to me, maybe it was just another 'something' he came upon and put in a safe place!


John
a.k.a. The Artful Bodger

[sbwhart]

Chris this site may be of use

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/BOXFORD_LATHE_USERS_NEW1.html

Stew

[raynerd]

Stew - thanks for the link - v useful.

Well I picked up the lathe this evening and boy was it hard work to shift - this cast iron isn`t light stuff    I have to go back for the boxford bench later next week.

The serial number as shown on the plaque under the boxford logo is: 2473 A 423
The serial number as shown on the bed is: DEH 3656/A423/247

If anyone can confirm the date or exact model using those serials do let me know - I`m interested to know more about the lathes history.










Much to my delight, he revealed this little beauty to me as well - apparently he forgot to give it me last night when I picked up the tools:



.....a vertical slide - i.e milling attachment, right?

I`m so excited to use it, seems to be in great condition and as of yet I haven`t come across anything obvious that seems not be in the right place or missing, well anything except:



Yup - the wiring is, as they say, "buggered". I would appreciate any advice - motors and power supplys are not my strong point! I have taken a few pictures to help - obviously that three core wire has come lose from the plug socket but starting from the motor, there seems to be three wires:



these three wires go up to the switch located at the front of the machine:



And then from there, these two bare wires are left exposed!! The picture shows the three wires go up to the switch and then a further two "bare" wires coming down back from the switch:



Anyone any idea about how this could be wired or how I sort this all out? Even if the two bare wires were for the plug - where does the earth go? I keep saying I`m taking my time and safety first etc etc... but I must admit, I`m itching to get this running and just see how it runs!

Hope you like my setup, not bad for a freebie! It is all the little extra`s that have just blown me away - all the tooling, the chucks, face plates and then to top it off, a vertical slide! Christmas has most definately come early - infact it feels like the next 10 rolled into one!!! 

Chris

[CrewCab]

The serial numbers suggest it dates from around 1951/52  and looking at the pictures that's probably about right ............ nice looking machine 

as for the wiring ........... if you are not 110% competent to wire it up then please leave it alone and call in a professional, there are some times in life when being economical can severely affect your health, and electrickery takes no prisoners if you get it wrong.

The vertical slide is one heck of a bonus btw  .............. considering your recent luck would you be so good as to PM me a suggestion for the lottery numbers for tomorrow 

atb 

CC

[raynerd]

CC - thanks for your info!

Regarding the wiring - my problem would be that I wouldn`t know who to take it to - I mean even if I could strip off the motor, which itself is big job due to its weight, it is the fact that the switch is located on the the lathe front, so couldn`t be taken to someone complete anyway. Even if I called someone in, I doubt they would be willing to crawl in through a hatch and work in a 4" high space (i`m under the kitchen while the basement/workshop is being built!!) I totally agree though, I guess it should be done by a pro but I don`t know who?!

[CrewCab]

Is it 240v or three phase .......... your picture of a 13amp plug suggest 240v, but, are all the wires within the machine the same colour 

Taking off the motor is pretty straightforward to be fair, but ........  I'm assuming it's an UnderDrive model 

Dave

[raynerd]

Hey CC - someone has been very organised and stuck a sticker on the plug which says "LATHE" - so that clarifies that it has been used to run the lathe at some point. The two bare wires from the switch are not colour coded! :S any other ideas - and if there are only two wires coming from the switch - where does the third, presumably earth connect to?

Chris

[Darren]

The wiring looks very dodgy to me and personally I would strip it all out and start again with some quality/safe wiring.

I don't believe anyone should/could tell you how to do it, mainly because from here it's almost impossible to tell how it's been wired.

BUT, from what I can see, it's single phase with a two way switch for reverse. Pretty simple to wire up.


Please do get rid of that old wire and put some proper stuff in. Looks like lamp wire, or worse bell wire.


That vertical slide is a cheap and very nasty cross slide, bin it, it's no good to man nor beast unless you are going to tame the dog by throwing it at him.

[kvom]

A 3PH motor would have 4 wires.  Is there a plate on the motor?  Since there is a F/R switch it seems to be a reversable motor.

Assuming single phase the 3 wires are 2 power and 1 ground.  In the US the colors would be white, black, and green for the ground.  I assume UK has different standards.  It seems likely that the motor is grounded to the frame within the switch, but not extended to the power cable, hence only two wires out of the switch.  You could verify this with a voltmeter (see if there is conductivity).

Regardless, I would recommend that all the wiring be replaced from the motor connection box outward.  The connection box will likely have the motor wires with label tabs, and those wire will be connected to the switch wires with wire nuts.  For replacement wiring I'd go with 12ga wire.

[John Hill]

Chris, yes, please get rid of those wires!  Get some new switches too.  You may be able to get a forward/reverse on/off combined or the job could be done with two switches.

Assuming this is a single phase motor, which it surely would be if that appliance plug belongs to it.......

A single phase motor is usually reversed by reversing the connections to the start windings,  some motors have those connections labelled, some dont, and some need a little modification if the motor was not originally intended for reversing.  Whatever, it really is a job for someone who knows but it is not a difficult job for them.

If you want to save some money and get some joy from participation in the "project" you might like to make up a nice little switch box and mount the two switches, you need a single pole (for the on/off) and a "double pole, double throw" for the reverse.  I suggest get the switches, which of course MUST be mains rated, make the box and show everything to your electrician friend, if he approves the choice of switch you could then mount them and he will make the connections and check it out for safety.


I see your photographs show a carriage stop with a rod going behind the switch!  Could this be a home brewed limit switch?  In which case you might like to get your electrician friend to judge if it is a function you can retain.

John
The Artful Bodger

[bogstandard]

Very nice lathe you have now Chris, a real gem that will last you a lifetime, but as always, I come bearing bad tidings.

The vertical slide, isn't. That is just a very cheap cross slide vice, that you might be able to use on a drill press, but nothing else. I think we had a discussion about them a while back. They are a good source for raw materials.

Take everyones advice and get your new lathe rewired correctly and to the latest regulations by a professional. It might cost a few squid for the correct cableing, protective conduit plus switches, but at least you will know it is safe to use.

Unless you are up to professional standards, don't even consider doing it yourself. You have too much to lose, and that doesn't mean cash.

You only get one chance at this life, think of what would happen if you weren't here. Someone else would soon snatch your new found toy away for themselves.


John