Magnetic Indicator Holder

[PekkaNF]

Hello all,

I have had one no brand very basic dial indicator holder for 18 years and it's pretty much ok. Not the smoothes and most rigid, but perfectly adequate. Until now.

Fine adjustment has started to act up, it's a little more rough than before and cleaning did not really improve it.

My friend helped mit ot measure my mill and he gloated with two very smooth mechanical centre lock/adjustment hi-tech-toy. I had used them before at the work, but thought they were really for rich kids or professionals.

Got flu and desided to cure it with new tools. I bough one new Vogel- brand (says Germany and all in it's burlap) and first one had a skewed base. Ok, they replaced it. I was using the new one and I was surprided to find fine tuning rough and harder than the old one!

And I'm using the standard 0,01 mm resolution clock, not the 0,001 mm one!

I was pretty disaponted, I disassembled the fine tuning and it had play everywhere and the build was susch that the play acted up not only against the spring, but also sideways and allows tiltting....making a whopping 0,05 mm uncertainty, depending which way measurement forces act on it. Moving surfaces are really rough and play everywhere.

http://shop.vogel-germany.de/Measuring-Stands--Roundnesses--Marking-and-Height-Gauges/Measuring-Stands/Accessories-217/Magnetic-Measuring-Stands/Magnetic-Measuring-Stand--400-mm.html?XTCsid=d0875cd3020bb002177ef2b303bb4a5d

Product No.: 255001

Could be just me having a bad luck, but twice on same product.

So, 60 EUR does not buy more that chinese poor quality, no matter what it says. Is there really anything under 100€ that would do, or am I better of buying traditional one, brand name?

Pekka

[vtsteam]

I'm thinking it is Chinese:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Magnetic-Dial-Stand-Holder_51257680.html?spm=a2700.7724838.35.1.QgH1Lp

[PekkaNF]

I agree....probably this one too:
http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/baty-hydraulic-magnetic-base.html

Starret + Moore and Wright seems to gone chinese as well.

I don't want to shell out over 200€ for Mitutoyo MIT 7033B. Just can't bring myself to do that.

On the other hand....I'm not spending any more on Indin or Chinese, not matter how cheap. And I specially hate to get ripped off on european/US brand.

I was looking some other stuff on this brand, because local shop has this brand, but I can't buy it, because they don't clearly state the quality of the stuff...

Need straight edge and all sorts of stuff. I was allready having hots for this kind of stand, it would simplify my life:
http://shop.vogel-germany.de/Measuring-Stands--Roundnesses--Marking-and-Height-Gauges/Measuring-Stands/Accessories-217/Cast-Iron-Bases/

Now I have to find honest chinese one, that I know is semi ready and cheap or real tool, but then I really need it.

Pekka

[vtsteam]

Pekka, couldn't you make/mod something really to your taste?

[PekkaNF]

Pekka, couldn't you make/mod something really to your taste?

Yeah. I could.

I was just in the middle of making that hydraulic press/broaching tool (Which I need for my next two project) when I noticed that my milling machine reached the limit I could not hold decent standard. Parts were not turning out straight square anymore. I got one 0,1 mm taper on 300 mm long piece, could not beleive it and repeated - yup ways are that worn out.

So. I'm a little reluctant to get sidetracked on someting else, unless it is pretty close to the same path that gets my mill fixed. It is still sitting there, gibs loose but othervise functional. I'm wondering what do I need to do with it before I move it one metre sideways to allow dissassemly of the table.

Then again, I could try out scraping and make one small grinding spindle that I can mount half decent linear rails to hog out 0,1 - 0,2 mm of material to get past wear.

Tried to fix the play on fine adjustment of the stand. I can't make it smooth with the parts I have. Placing the 0,05 mm shim on both sides of rough/loose member removed some of the play, but the shaft is loose and allows tiltting, because it is perpenticular to the spring and exactly on the middle to make it inherently unstable. This tilting introduces close to 0,05 mm of indicated play on measurement.

My first instict was to clean/epoxy the joint, but the locking system is not smooth eneough to snug the clock on right reading....This needs fine tuning.

Suggestions of the mechanism to copy? Sandwitch between magnet base and arm?

Pekka

[vtsteam]

Pekka are you sure the ways are worn? A varying thickness of the milling table will have the taper cutting effect. It seems like the distance between an end mill and the ways at the point of contact with work would not change as the table traverses, even though ways were worn to an incline. But it would change if the table thickness varied.

If the ways are off, shimming the column -- traming --  can bring the head into alignment with the ways. If the table upper surface itself is the culprit (which it sounds like), You could mill it with a big enough single tooth carbide fly cutter (I made a big one to mill my tractor head).

Maybe I'm not understanding your problem correctly, and apologies if I've got it all wrong here.

[vtsteam]

Thinking about it further there's a point of confusion for me -- I thought you were talking about the ways, but i think you mean correcting the table slides. I think of the ways as the base portion.

You want to remove the table and use the upper table surface as a standard by putting it on a surface plate, and bring the table slides into alignment with that. That is another method of creating a constant thickness for the table, besides trueing up the table top surface with a fly cutter in the mill itself.

Which is preferable is up to you. If the table slides are not linearly worn, then fly cutting the top surface will add curvature there, so doing the slides would be better.

If the variation is linear or close enough, and relatively small over the length, then you could true up the top, if you wanted.

[NeoTech]

Making a one hand indicator stand should not be that hard ?? Its just two rods with a 45 degeree in the ends and block that forces them outwards when its screwed tight. Harden the 45 deg. surfces and use a volfram ball or similar for wedge.

[PekkaNF]

VT. the ways/slides are worn on the middle. I verified this with repeated measurements parallels/clocks and loaded/unloaded. Gibs loose and gibs tigtened.

Only table has dovetails tightening them will pull table middle down a little....looks like table is worn only it's mating surface.

The table is nicely formed rectangular cuboid (sans projecting dovetail) and luckily top is fairly flat. In priciple it should measure same on every corner and then ways should be parallel and in the same plane. But this needs verifying, double check and then corrections have to be applied.

I'm going to try build simple fine adjustment on indicator holder. Actually I tried last one last night and I'm not happy with the original construction.

Pekka

[vtsteam]

Pekka, well yes if the slides and ways are worn curved, then there's nothing for it but to scrape them to a reference.

How will you scrape the ways without a straightedge? A surface plate isn't practical here. Well, I guess you mentioned you do have a shorter straightedge....is it the length of the ways?

[rotorhead]

Pekka,

Why not try these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/181798313175?adgroupid=&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80

[vintageandclassicrepairs]

Hi All,

Why not try these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/181798313175?adgroupid=&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80

I bought one of these,
The magnetic base is not strong enough if using a 2" dia indicator
its okish using a smaller indicator, but still easily dislodged 

I have sucessfully used it tho in awkward situations where the universal joint can help access
One of the uses is setting valve clearances on some British classic bike engines where getting a feeler gauge into place is very awkward. Most times I can clamp or bolt a piece of flat steel onto the engine to accept the magnetic base

HTH
John

[PekkaNF]

If I really want one mechanical or hydraulic one knob magnetic base for lever type indicator do I have any other real good options than Mitutoyo which is really too expensive for my budged or Noga, which is just about there?

I need working fine tuning, there is no way around it when beter than 0,01 mm resolution.

I'm really, really disapoined on this Vogel/chinese stand. Fine adjustment does not work out of the box and and even after new parts it is iffy, arm locking is not very exact, fine tuning knob is on the clock holder, it is impossible to touch finetuning without affecting an setting, spring sticks and something on mating surface sticks/slips making adjustent smaller than 0,05 mm very random.

Should I paint it with eco friendly green color and chuck it?

Pekka

[lordedmond]

Sorry Pekka but the answer to your first line is no

save up and get a Noga if you can sorry if its not what you want to hear but the quality will be still there after you have forgot about the vast expense

Stuart

[DavidA]

Pekka,

Don't know if this helps or just muddies the water some more.

http://www.vogel-germany.de/en/unternehmen-unsere-markenzeichen.html

Dave.

[PekkaNF]

Pekka,

Don't know if this helps or just muddies the water some more.

http://www.vogel-germany.de/en/unternehmen-unsere-markenzeichen.html

Dave.

I saw that and it made it pretty clear that they might not know it themself...just market/brand differentiation and their site has seemingly similar products with different prices.

I should get and offer of Fisso stand from local engineering supply company (or same prodct under another brand name).

Pekka