Diesel cars

[DavidA]

Nope, It all goes into one big pot.

So,  what is the shape of things to come ?

I suspect that the price of Diesel,  already on the increase,  will get exorbitantly high in the next five year.

If you have a diesel car then the emission tests will get tougher. New Diesels will gradually be phased out and the tax on your old one will get higher.

The glory days of fuel economy are over.  Prepare to return to 35 mpg.

Bullet proof reliability,  half a million miles engine life, is out,  damp spark ignition systems are back in.

But if you keep your Diesel and run it on bio then you may just be able to buck the system.

Bio bootleggers will pick on their banjos whilst watching the kettles boil.

All together now...

Daddy ran his bio in a big black Dodge.
Bought it in an auction at the mason's lodge.

Dave

[smiffy]

I thought with Exhaust gas recirculation, particle filters and the use of Ad blu was going to make Euro 5 and 6 series engines less polluting than petrol engines ,or is this going to be another excuse to make us pay even more tax .Mike

[DavidA]

Mike,

The latter.  It always works that way.

Moving the topic on.

Anyone for electric cars ?

Or the half way house of petrol/electric hybrids.  Prius etc ?

Anybody got one ?

Dave.

[Bluechip]

Not got one but had a test drive in a Mitzi Outlander PHEV ....

Cannot see what that things all about, battery range some 18-20 miles ... then back to petrol ???

WTF ?????

No wonder there is/was a £5000 bribe to buy one of the contraptions.


£50k and I might have been tempted ... 


Dave

[Swarfing]

I have to scoff slightly at electric cars, great as cheap to run but the electricity still has to be made somewhere down the line, and it still cost the environment. I'm sure we are all aware by now the need to produce clean energy argument, yadda yadda yadda so no debate there. But clean energy is not everywhere yet so green electric cars are still not really green until all the electrickery in the first place is green....right? or wrong? Just fed up of governments playing green poker. Same with tax on cigarettes is the same on oil. Until it all stops we are still dicking around in a babbling brook and governments grabbing as much tax as they can until the bitter end.........greasy palms and all that

I will now get off my soapbox, put down the wine glass and go to bed...sigh!

[Manxmodder]

Nope, It all goes into one big pot.

So,  what is the shape of things to come ?

I suspect that the price of Diesel,  already on the increase,  will get exorbitantly high in the next five year.

If you have a diesel car then the emission tests will get tougher. New Diesels will gradually be phased out and the tax on your old one will get higher.

The glory days of fuel economy are over.  Prepare to return to 35 mpg.

Bullet proof reliability,  half a million miles engine life, is out,  damp spark ignition systems are back in.

But if you keep your Diesel and run it on bio then you may just be able to buck the system.

Bio bootleggers will pick on their banjos whilst watching the kettles boil.

All together now...

Daddy ran his bio in a big black Dodge.
Bought it in an auction at the mason's lodge.

Dave

You could smell the bio burnin' down on chip shop road 

Great tune,Steve Earle's finest creation......OZ.

[S. Heslop]

Mike,

The latter.  It always works that way.

Moving the topic on.

Anyone for electric cars ?

Or the half way house of petrol/electric hybrids.  Prius etc ?

Anybody got one ?

Dave.

Only ever been a passenger in a Prius but i've never experienced motion sickness like it. I'm not sure if it was just the odd feeling of the almost silent engine and the unusually high dashboard. I think I heard that newer hybrids play engine sounds through a speaker so it's less weird.

[modeng200023]

MODENG,

But what year is it ?

Dave.

2014 I can't afford to run an old one 

[Pete W.]

Hi there, Swarfing,

SNIP ....... and it still cost the environment. I'm sure we are all aware by now the need to produce clean energy argument, yadda yadda yadda so no debate there.
SNIP ....... and governments grabbing as much tax as they can until the bitter end.........greasy palms and all that

I will now get off my soapbox, put down the wine glass and go to bed...sigh!

For an interesting perspective on this subject, I suggest you read a book called 'Not For Greens' by Ian Plimer.  (He's a professor of geology.)  That one's a paperback.  If you can afford a bit more time, he also wrote a more substantial book called 'Heaven and Earth'. 

[Swarfing]

Pete

I'm assuming the reading is regarding the affects on the earth? I have no argument there just false claims from governments about being green when they only have one foot in scenario. The point I was making is we cannot have our cake and eat it. Just feel they should be honest about all this, we are either green or not? I love petrol/ diesel cars just not at the expense of my kids future, if they have one? too much red tape and economics (taxes) play far too much in the equation and hold people back from striving for a greener future.

[Arbalist]

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2013/11/diesel-lung-cancer-deaths/

There are other reports that say modern Die sel cars are safer but you'd have to be stupid not to realise that thick black smoke that comes out of the back of Diesel cars isn't extremely toxic.

What's more important, slightly cheaper motoring or preventing hundreds of thousands of needless deaths each year?

[Bluechip]

My diesel is Euro6 and there is no black smoke from it, in fact there is no discernible smell at idling.

Why pick on cars?

Diesel engines power trucks, buses, trains, agricultural vehicles, ships and loads of other stuff.
Assuming the diesel car was banned, and we went electric, just where do you think the replacement electrical energy would come from? Bearing in mind the UK power generation is pretty much on the edge with insufficient reserve even now.
Next door has a wood-burner stove, now that does stink. Maybe they should be required by law to be fitted with a cat. and a PF ??

EOR

Dave

[DavidA]

Arbalist,

... but you'd have to be stupid not to realise that thick black smoke that comes out of the back of Diesel cars isn't extremely toxic...

I'm a bit puzzled by this.  Non of my Diesel cars ever give out noticeable smoke, let alone smoke of the thick black variety.  The only exception is if one boots the accelerator down on the turbo Diesel.  Then it will smoke as it is running very rich because the turbo hasn't been allowed to catch up with the engine. But you don't do this in normal operation.

Any diesel will smoke if the injectors are knackered (or the fuel pump),  but otherwise they are no more smokey than petrol engines.

I also have my doubts about electric cars. The figures quoted by manufacturers seem to apply to flat roads.  Not the kind of roads we have in West Yorkshire.
And what about heating and de-frosting,  lights etc. Are they used during the tests?

You never see the sort of performance figures that are useful to people of an inquiring nature.  And how do you manage if you have to park your car outside your home ?

Green power generation is another subject,  but it certainly ties in with the push for green cars.

Dave.

[DavidA]

Thought I'd throw in this precautionary tale.

I bought my 206 in the middle of April (this year) and before I did so I ran a check on it to see if it was tested as quoted.  It was. This check also informed me that it was taxed until September.

The more knowledgeable amongst you will know what's coming.

The car came from a relation.  I remember saying to my wife 'Debbie has slipped up.  There is still half a years tax on the car.'.

Then, I found out about the latest government rip off.
In case anyone doesn't know,  when you transfer ownership of a car the tax ceases to be in effect and you are reimbursed for part of the outstanding balance. The new owner has to re tax it.

So where is the rip off ?

well,  they only work in whole months  So if I bought the car on, say, the 2nd of the month I would lose the rest of the month. The seller also loses that period. The new owner would have to re tax it starting at the beginning of the month (as usual) so the Government gets paid twice for that month.

I'm wiser and poorer now.

Dave.

[Arbalist]

I never said you guys had to like it. You will have to get used to it though. Every day I end up behind one car or van that's  pumping out black smoke so I guess there must be thousands of vehicles out there with knackered injectors? I fail to see how anyone that drives a car or other vehicle "knows" what's coming out on a daily basis, a quick look in the rear view mirror doesn't really cut it. For the time being petrol is cleaner until something better replaces it.
As for silly comments like boats etc, they don't drive through town centres do they? 

[DavidA]

...For the time being petrol is cleaner until something better replaces it...

LPG perhaps ?

Dave

[Arbalist]

Could be Dave, I don't know much about LPG. Quentin Wilson thoroughly reccomended the 4 Litre Jeep many years ago but suggested the LPG conversion for it to reduce running costs.

I also remember reading that Henry Ford always envisioned that cars would run on Ethanol not Gasoline. I guess we burn what we've got until we find something better.

[Swarfing]

why not good old fashioned wood gas with big balloons on top of the car 

[RobWilson]

AdBlue   


Rob

[loply]

I never get diesel cars... they sound awful, they drive badly with gear shifts every half a second, they emit so much crap they actually seem to make themselves dirty, and they have more parts to go wrong on them.

Rather pay the extra money for the smooth running of a petrol engine. I'm always confused when you see a £40k+ BMW or Audi and it's a diesel... if you can afford to pay that much surely the difference in fuel cost for the benefits of a petrol engine would be easy!

The cost for replacing glow plugs and dual mass flywheels etc on modern diesels is ridiculous.

Plus if you're a man who likes driving, there's a pleasure to be had from a decent petrol engine, my last car had an 8000rpm limit and was smooth as a peach. It was also running nearly 30psi of boost 

I'm fortunate in that I'm now running a 6.3 AMG V8 which is about as far from a diesel as you can get, and I bloody love it 

[Manxmodder]

Diesels drive badly and need gear shifts every half second? The diesels I've owned all have had a very broad spread of torque so no need changing gears quickly.....OZ

[Arbalist]

Not sure where you are in the world Loply but a relative on the wife's side in Canada was showing off his wife's new Grand Cherokee to me the last time we visited. He popped the bonnet and that big Vee was running as smooth as silk. No idea what they're like but I was taken with the Dodge Ram 1500, bit too big for English roads though...

[lordedmond]

I never get diesel cars... they sound awful, they drive badly with gear shifts every half a second, they emit so much crap they actually seem to make themselves dirty

I'm fortunate in that I'm now running a 6.3 AMG V8 which is about as far from a diesel as you can get, and I bloody love it 

They make themselves dirty well I run a oil burning BMW and it never gets the back end grubby even the tail pipe is clean it's the one with the soot filter

And to even think about comparing a AMG V8 6.3 is not a fair comparison IMHO yes I would run one if it did not drink petrol although I would still go for a BMW after the worst new car we ever had was a merc heap of junk but again not a AMG ,engine packed in after six weeks and it went down hill from there we the last straw complete engine failure in the outside lane of the M1 , so it was back to the beamers

Just my take on it no offence intended to any poster

Stuart

[Swarfing]

Diesels drive badly and need gear shifts every half second? The diesels I've owned all have had a very broad spread of torque so no need changing gears quickly.....OZ

Mmmmm let me see? My diesel has 3 gears (automatic), will pull a train and keep torque in all gears, will do over 500,000 miles (if serviced regularly). The point about RPM well in a diesel you can get the same POWER for a lot less RPM. Life is not always about speed, things just wear out quicker.

OZ you are comparing apples and pears, it is speed or need not need for speed 

[DavidA]

Loply,

.. if you can afford to pay that much surely the difference in fuel cost for the benefits of a petrol engine would be easy!..

If you don't mind burning off  than your share of the worlds energy  supply  just because you have the money,  then I can see your point.

I could never see why people need huge engines when one a third the size is adequate.

You must have some very bad Diesels in you part of the world.

Dave