Electricity getting very expensive in the Workshop

[Pete49]

At the moment wind power is the biggest contributor at 12.95 GW, solar is 2.55 GW. Nuclear is 5.25 GW.

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/index.php

I don't dispute that, it's the subsides need to be taken away to show the true cost of generation. It's the subsidies that increase the costs.

[philf]

At the moment wind power is the biggest contributor at 12.95 GW, solar is 2.55 GW. Nuclear is 5.25 GW.

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/index.php

I don't dispute that, it's the subsides need to be taken away to show the true cost of generation. It's the subsidies that increase the costs.

Hi Pete,

I was only pointing out that it's oil & gas that has rocketed in price. As far as I'm aware wind and sunshine are still free!

I'm involved in a small scale hydro project and we're locked into a contract which sets the price of the electricity we generate far below the current (no pun intended) market price.

Cheers.

Phil.

[Noitoen]

Energy prices for industrial use in Portugal change on a daily bases. The price for "tomorrow" is based on the price of the fuel of the last source that was used "today". Most of the day might be supplied by solar, wind or hydro but if gas must be used to top up the grid, the price reference for the "tomorrow" energy is based 100% on the gas price of today. At our plant there have been days that the price goes to 0.7€/kwh. No wonder that power companies show huge profits.

Household power costs on the other end have been kept stable at around 0.19€/kwh and since the maximum limit imposed on the gas prices, this should drop to around 0.17€.

[hanermo]

We got our 10 kW solar PV array running 2 weeks ago.
Rooftop.

Producing about 4x more power than we use, and mostly a lot of extra power we will be using shortly for "hotel loads".

Grid power cost is up 2-3-4x in finland and spain, depending on what lies--statistics you use.

A pretty large 3-phase 10 kW system costs about 7k€, net, to me.
Payback is 18 months, or so.
And I get free power for AC in the house and shop, and for 2 spas, and for heating a swimming pool.

[vtsteam]

 

[WeldingRod]

Dang!  18 month pay back!  On something that last 20 years?!?!  OMG!

Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk

[hanermo]

To further ...
Plan is to install a heat pump of about 16-20 kW, air-water, as they can have an efficiency in the 5.8 COP level.
This means you get 5.8 times the heat vs the power you put in.

So a 4 kW max electrical load delivers upto 20 kW of heating / cooling.
I will keep the current oil heating system, but simply not use.

The oil bill last year was 3000 €, which will drop to essentially zero.
As an extra, I will get air-con throughout the very large 400m2 house and shop.
Estimated cost is around 8-10k€, for 14 fan-coil units (replace radiators).
Plus about 800 € in work hours.
I´m a contractor and these are my own import materials costs.

A commercial air-conditioning install of 20 kW would cost over 20 k€ (10-12 splits, give or take).

And because of the PV array, heating and aircon will be free, for now (30 years).
Saving about 3500€ in electric bills, and 3000 € in heating bills, per year.
And a 1000€ per year subsidy from the gov. for 4 years.

[awemawson]

So a year on I decided to change a further 28 fluoresent tube for LEDs but before I spent the approx £350 something told me to confirm that the original change HAD actually reduced power consumption, and I found that it HADN'T 

A major investigation ensued detailed here :

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/questionable-florescent-led-replacement-efficiency.128634/

In summary the consumption of 70 watt tubes replaced by 24 watt tubes had INCREASED to 80 watts. Contrary to the manufacturers instructions it was essential to remove the capacitor which was the major consumer, and to a lesser extent the ballast which was an order of magnitude less of a culprit. With both removed a 24 watt tube actually consumes - guess what - 24 watts 

Much shilly shallying about and 'interesting' conversations with the supplier (TLC Electrical) and the importer over several weeks resulted in two electricians coming here today to delete all capacitors and ballasts in my workshop at the importers cost

Pleased to say NOW main workshop is drawing 808.4 watts (was 2773)

While they were here I got the sparks to replace the 28 tubes in the welding shop and foundry with further tubes that I had bought, and they removed the capacitors and ballasts here as well - more power reduction. They now draw 600 watts (was 2279)

It's been a long drawn out issue but I'm glad to say it's now been resolved largely to my satisfaction. I got a very minor reduction in the price of the 28 extra tubes (to £10 + VAT per tube) and the electricians for a day but not compensation for the extra power drawn in the main workshop for the year that the tubes have been installed. No doubt if I'd gone down the 'Trading Standards' route I would have achieved that and more but life is too short.Meanwhile TLC have made alterations to the claims on their web site regarding power reduction (in fact they've had to reword it twice as I pointed out errors in their first re-write!)

. . . hey ho . . .