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And here's a mockup of a test setup. It will need to be mounted on a base so vibration doesn't move the various pieces around. But I couldn't help but give it a test spin this evening.

The accessories made for engine testing are:

1.) A variable DC power supply. Here supplying 100 watts for heating the displacer.

2.) A DIY electric furnace made from Plaster of Paris with stainless steel aircraft safety wire for an element.

3.) DIY Prony brake from steel, brass wood and a digital scale  (yes, I still need to shorten and reverse the stylus)

4.) DIY Hall effect digital tachometer.


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BTW this photo was at startup. Engine reached 1200 RPM eventually on 100 watts input.

No output watt figures yet because accessories were moving around the table at that speed due to vibration.
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I made up a digital tach tonight. It all fit in the lid of a plastic box.

Display, bottom. Switch, upper left. Battery, right, held in place with velcro. Hall sensor, top right.
 
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The case assembled, and the weird LLLL display:

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To trigger the Hall sensor, a very small wafer magnet was attached to the outside rim of Prony brake drum with high strength bearing mount adhesive.

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43
Project Logs / Re: Building Bernard Tekippe`s Regulator Clock
« Last post by raynerd on May 28, 2025, 01:26:01 PM »
I managed to get it ticking!

i=uZlrOZK6xyEjgzYM
44
Project Logs / Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Last post by vtsteam on May 28, 2025, 11:11:10 AM »
I think experiments with hot air engines often lose sight of the fact that they have an advantage over IC and steam in that they can use any form of heat (unlike IC engines) and don't require the danger, operational watchfulness, and expense of boilers (unlike steam engines). Most experimenters seem to have in mind an ultimate goal of fueled transportation, and use gas fossil fuels to experiment with in hot air engines. They search for efficiencies with engine configurations that favor these fuels.

Hot air engines can run on non-fossil biological solid fuels, including waste like sawdust, nut shells, rice husks, mulch hay, leaves, pine cones, branches, chips and waste wood, and they can run on solar heat, and waste heat from industrial processes.

Stationary uses where some fuel or heat source is inexpensive and available is a niche use that they seem eminently suitable for to me, rather than transportation, which is better suited to fluid fuels and electricity.

I don't believe hot air engines will ever be able to replace high power density fossil fueled IC engines. But as stationary engines they can utilize high availability local fuels that IC types absolutely can not. And so provide a low cost power source, and a different definition for the concept of fuel efficiency. That's been my interest all along.
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Project Logs / Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Last post by vtsteam on May 28, 2025, 10:47:27 AM »
Thanks Nickle for your thoughts  :beer:. I did wonder if the roughness might contribute to heat exchange, which I think is the biggest concern of all in hot air engines, especially if increasing their size (which I intend to do). We'll see. And yes, a possible experiment is to try otherwise identical cylinders with different internal finishes.

BTW, one other variable, besides smoothness, is the increased side clearance created by honing the ridges down. Does that help or hurt? Well could be both, also. More clearance reduces air resistance, but decreases heat exchange.

The number of variables in hot air engine design is huge compared to IC or steam. That's because of the gas heat exchange requirements within the engine itself. Also why they are still so subject to experimentation..... and so therefore, interesting.
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Yes CB I was thinking that also, presently the pressure needed is so light that the springs have no locking effect.

I've put a tiny dab of silicone rubber sealant on the bottom of the thumb nuts and that seems to be working to increase friction without adding so much that they are hard to turn.

Other changes yesterday: I Tung oiled the brake arm instead of varnishing. Disassembled and cleaned engine (see the No 83 thread).

I tried to set up a digital Hall effect tachometer with a panel meter and transducer received from Ebay, but it seemed defective.  It just read 7777 or LLLL when powered up (depending on how you look at it). Today, I tested on a loose flywheel with magnet and figured out this was normal behavior, unlike my other Hall tach on my lathe, which shows 0000 when stationary. I had initiated a return, but cancelled it once I realized it worked. This could have been avoided by including a one line instruction sheet. Oh well, on with the show....
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Project Logs / Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Last post by nickle on May 28, 2025, 08:01:44 AM »
Running on wood pellets as originally imagined is a fantastic outcome. Well done. On the cylinder roughness... It may actually help in some circumstances. A turbulent boundary layer caused by roughness can actually reduce overall drag under certain conditions... Think dimples on a golf ball type thing... Smooth golf balls are higher drag and don't go as far. I've heard some engine tuning types actually prefer rougher ports when porting performance engines for the same reason. I can't recall how to set up the math's as it's been an awful long time since I learned about it. Before and after figures would be interesting and maybe a plan to roll back to rough surface finish if that works better. Either way, well done on getting it to run so well.

Nick
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I think there is a good possibility the springs will stabilize and help maintain the brass nut position. Think the spring on a needle jet of a lawnmower engine?

49
Project Logs / Re: The Return of No. 83, a Hot Air Engine
« Last post by vtsteam on May 27, 2025, 01:13:13 PM »
I've made up a Prony brake to measure power output, in conjunction with a tachometer ( https://www.madmodder.net/index.php/topic,13897.0.html ) and now that I'm ready for more tests, it's time to tear down and clean the engine. Inspection shows a few issues:

1.) Flywheel grub screw is loose.

2.) A wear pattern of the outer rim of the main bearings is visible on the flywheel boss. This means the flywheel was contacting there, rather than bearing against the inner journal of the ball bearing. I need a shim washer to eliminate that source of friction.

3.) The steel wrist pin is lightly marking the power cylinder. I need to substitute a brass wrist pin, or shorten the pin and plug the ends with some graphite plugs.

4.) I suspected that the displacer pushrod was loose in the displacer. It screws into the far end, and was originally sealed there with a high temp adhesive. I probably broke that bond when adjusting the pushrod length awhile back.

To check for leaks, I lowered the displacer into a glass of hot water. This expands the air inside the displacer, and any leaks immediately show up as bubbles. Sure enough, they popped right out of the screwed end joint, so I have to fix that. Otherwise the internal volume of the displacer adds markedly to the dead space of the entire engine, and with the internal volume expanding and contracting a little out of phase, absorbs power that should be going to the power cylinder.

5.) The tiny amount of oil from lubricating the external parts has worked into the power and displacer cylinders, congealing, and adding friction. It was washed out with soap and water.

6.) The finish inside the displacer cylinder is slightly rough to the touch from boring. I didn't think much about it before because it's a non-contact surface, but I now imagine that it must produce air resistance at speed as it shuttles back and forth. So I think I'll hone all of the test displacer cylinders to a smoother (and similar) finish for testing. I don't think lapping is necessary, but maybe some day I'll try that as well to see if it makes a difference.

50
Scale 4.5 @ 1060 RPM = .490 watts. With a fuller can of Sterno, again really too preliminary to take as anything more than ballpark. Lots of consistency problems controlling brake pressure and reading RPM and scale simultaneously.

Issues:

1.) The brass thumbnuts loosen from vibration. They are very free running on the brass screws. No springs yet. Need to wear in the brake pads enough to allow them.
2.) The laser tachometer is difficult to get focused on the flywheel, the reading button often doesn't work (it's old), the flywheel black paint wears (not intended to be permanent) so creates false readings from scratches.
3.) The heat source is variable.
 

To do:

1.) Varnish arm (not pad wear surfaces) and then oil pads, and just wear-in so they seat better -- they are already greatly improved from running this small amount.  Get lighter springs onto the brake, add some sort of sticky compound to thumbnuts to inhibit loosening while running.

2.) Add a hall effect digital tach for continuous reading of RPM.

3.) For proper testing, use the electric heater at a consistent wattage.

4.) Disassemble and clean the engine.

I am presently using a 3/4" thick padding block of white pine on top of the scale (per Bill Todd's suggestion above) rather than the long brass stylus. The main advantage of that is lessening of the weight of the arm. The block is self-taring when turning on the scale, unlike the stylus attached to the arm.

I would normally need a new compensating tare weight as well for the now lessened weight of the arm. Also if I varnish the arm, that compensating amount will change. I think the easier course from here on out would be to eliminate a brass weight altogether, and just compensate by subtracting the most current compensating figure from the scale reading when tabulating the data. That would allow for quick adjustments whenever the arm weight changes, rather than making new weights each time.
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