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The Shop => Tools => Topic started by: Chuck in E. TN on May 25, 2014, 10:15:27 AM

Title: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: Chuck in E. TN on May 25, 2014, 10:15:27 AM
 I was gifted with 2 packs of Sandvic Coromant inserts. The gifter swears they work miracles on hard steel. I did not get the tool holder or clamp for these inserts. The inserts are marked SNGN 12 04, 16ESNG 434A, and 620.
I have researched these inserts and found lots of info on metals they will work on, speeds and feeds, but cannot find an insert holder for them.
Can someone with knowledge of these inserts please explain how to find the insert holder and clams for these inserts? If I can get the proper clamps and spec for the tool holder, I think it’s within my capabilities to make the tool holder.
Chuck
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: PekkaNF on May 25, 2014, 05:06:41 PM
Ceramic inserts. They need pretty big and stiff machine + very hard shim under or they'll crumble.

You are probably looking for CSYNR-L tool holder?

Something like this:
http://www.turning-tools.com/csynr-l-tool-holder-for-sngn-and-sngx-ceramic-inserts

You probably have the dimensions of the insert?

PekkaNF

Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: dsquire on May 25, 2014, 07:28:24 PM
Hi All

An interesting bit of trivia.

This post by Chuck was posted on both MadModder and Model Engine Maker within minutes of each other. As of 7:20 PM there was only 1 reply and 74 reads on MadModder and 32 reads on Model Engine Maker.  :D :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don

Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: DaveH on May 25, 2014, 08:55:18 PM
That may be so, but I answered it on another forum  :)
 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: Chuck in E. TN on May 25, 2014, 09:31:47 PM
When I have a question I want an answer to, I usually post it on multiple forums to get the widest exposure and depth of knowledge. I have no particular loyalty to any one forum, and have friends on all of them. It never ceases to amaze me the wide range of answers, good and bad, that I get across the forums.
I thank all that have responded.
Chuck
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: PekkaNF on May 26, 2014, 07:46:25 AM
Just out of curiosity, what do you intend to use these inserts?

My heaviest lathe is about 960kg 3Kw capstan lathe and even that does not respond well to negative rake insert on iron metals.

I use carbide inserts on iron metals when I don't like to use coolant and/or don't want to grind HSS. Purely for turning on a hobby lathe I would be better off with HSS and cooling, but my garage is not very fit for grinding. Sort of doublewhammy with hot work and water emulsion spun around.

I have seen ceramic inserts used on industry, but those machines are from differet planet and the fireworks they produce.

Would love to see your application on YouTube.

Pekka
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: BaronJ on May 26, 2014, 07:52:47 AM
Hi All,

I agree with Pekka !  Ceramic inserts need very robust machines.  You usually find them in use on CNC work centres.

Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: Chuck in E. TN on May 26, 2014, 07:57:50 AM
I received the inserts from a friend who is a retired tool and die guy. He says I can use them for tough metals on even my little lathe. He has volunteered to make tool holders but is busy with other projects at the moment.
Without tool holders use is a moot point. As the inserts were free, I don't plan to spend money on holders...
I just want to see for myself if they are useable for tough cast iron.
Chuck
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: BillTodd on May 26, 2014, 09:02:24 AM
with square sided inserts, I would just use about 5° front and sideclearance by milling the holder at the two angles (let the top rake be set by the insert.

I would set the tool at an angle, in a small tool-maker's vice then grip that vice at an angle in the milling vice.

As Pekka says, you'll need to support the whole under side of those inserts if they are not to fracture.

Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: Chuck in E. TN on May 26, 2014, 09:15:24 AM
Thank you, Bill. Understood.
Chuck
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: BillTodd on May 26, 2014, 09:23:41 AM
oh and either floodcool or no cooling at all . squirting coolant ono a hot insert can crack them.
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: Arbalist on May 26, 2014, 01:41:14 PM
Hi All

An interesting bit of trivia.

This post by Chuck was posted on both MadModder and Model Engine Maker within minutes of each other. As of 7:20 PM there was only 1 reply and 74 reads on MadModder and 32 reads on Model Engine Maker.  :D :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don

Just noticed the question has been asked on at least Four different forums that I frequent...
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: Chuck in E. TN on May 26, 2014, 01:52:13 PM
6 total in fact, Arbalist. And, I got a million negative replies and a couple of positive ones, and even some help. How 'bout that!
Chuck
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: Arbalist on May 26, 2014, 01:57:41 PM
Now I'm wondering what the other two sites are Chuck!  :scratch:

HMEM, MEM, MF, & MM are the ones I use ...

Oh, and PIM but I don't go there much as I keep having to log in all the time!  :doh:


Ah, found the other two with a quick google!
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: PekkaNF on May 26, 2014, 03:02:58 PM
OK. Which answer did you found posititve?

I would love to see you succeed. There may be a chance to some success, but it probably needs a very balanced approach. I guess that you don't have HP and mass too much to spare, therefore I would check what are minimum limits on DOC, feed, and speed that data sheet allows and which one of them can be reduced further. Anyway, even if it does not work you have a chance of learning a great deal.

That might work on some exotic materials good enough, even if it is not feasible to steel. Once I had really nasty brass to turn and normal sharp HSS geometries were not producing any good finish. I gave one good swipe to cutting end to give a little negative angle to top of the rake. It worked great, nothing original I found out later......but it got it done!

I had a choice of one particular insert, it had two different configurations, other had greatly desirable properties, but it would have needed DOC and power I did not have, therefore I choose another format (very traditional rake and approach, no viper geometries etc.) because it was most my machine could handle. Downside was that it is fragile on manual feed, automatic feed is better.

My two euro cents,
Pekka
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: chipenter on May 27, 2014, 02:39:32 AM
Hears a chart that gives the info on the letters and sizes , I make my own holders but not for ceramic yet .
Title: Re: Need spec for indexable tool holder
Post by: Manxmodder on May 27, 2014, 07:09:47 AM
Hi Chuck, I use Cubic Boron Nitride inserts to machine hardened steels. The lathe I am using is a Harrison L6 with 12" swing and I have never experienced any problems with rigidity issues.

The surface finish produced on hardened materials is excellent.

Here is a link to a youtube video showing ceramic inserts being successfully used in a small lathe.....OZ.