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Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: raynerd on January 25, 2013, 03:12:59 PM

Title: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: raynerd on January 25, 2013, 03:12:59 PM: Ok...rather than start in my usual way of explaining what I'm making and how I'm going to go about it, lets just start with today's positive....

MY FIRST SUCCESSFUL CLOCK WHEEL! ...after years of failures

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/parslow1.jpg)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/parslow2.jpg)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/parslow3.jpg)

Chuffed to bits!!!

Hopefully this will go in Parslows clock which I purchased the plans for back in November. I have all materials...just a case of working at it. More to be posted soon I hope.

Chris
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: raynerd on January 30, 2013, 04:50:30 PM: Next, an attempt at pinions!

I used some 8mm silver steel, turned it down to 5.69mm OD. I put the full cut on of 1.49mm and at low speeds of about 120rpm, started cutting with lots and lots of oil and a slow feed. The steel was not supported by a tail stock and so under the microscope, you can see slight vibration marks. A lot of hard work in polishing these pinions has started to bring any marks out the pinions nice and clean. The end has been centre punched a touch too far, so I'll need to turn a couple of mm off the end before I drill and ream then part each pinion to size. I've turned up 1" of pinion so have enough to make quite a few of the 8teeth that are called for however will need to make another lot up. It would be nice to try a tail stock but a. I don't have one for my 4" vertex and b. the tail stock and centre would get in the way of the cutter without some thought,

Anyway, the fruits of this evenings labour.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/parslow4.jpg)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/parslow5.jpg)
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: Alan Haisley on January 31, 2013, 12:20:32 PM: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Way to go, Chris. A clock build startup.
Alan
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: raynerd on February 01, 2013, 05:18:34 PM: Cheers Alan, all going well so far. More progress pics soon.

Chris
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: NickG on February 02, 2013, 08:16:36 AM: Nice 1 chris, I'll be watching this unfold!
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: raynerd on February 03, 2013, 05:24:29 AM: Cheer!

Two very polite posters have pm'd me and a friend emailed me, not wanting to dampen my enthusiasm but concerned that the gap between the teeth is too big on the wheel but also questioned if this is an issue with the camera angle. I've now cleaned the wheel up and taken off any burrs, the wheel looks better and I think is now totally usable.... I guess we will see. The wheel below is the same one that is in the first post. The reverse minute wheel:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/parslow6.jpg)
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: spuddevans on February 06, 2013, 04:13:29 PM: Looking good there Chris :thumbup: :thumbup:

I still have the Ferris Wheel clock on my list of projects for when I get my new workshop built, so I am keenly following your progress.

Tim
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: raynerd on February 13, 2013, 03:19:26 PM: Hi Tim, yes, that ferris Clock is also on my to make list! :proj:

By the way, thanks to Don who has kindly replaced my images with smaller pics that fit on the screen! Cheers don.
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: dsquire on February 13, 2013, 05:23:09 PM: Chris
(http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh490/DSquire/Main-2/Emoticons/ThankYou.gif)

Glad to help in any way that I can to help make thing more presentable for the masses and at the same time get more views on your posts. Good luck with the balance of the build.

Cheers :beer:

Don
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: raynerd on February 15, 2013, 03:28:35 AM: Cheers Don

A little bit more done. For each clock I need 3x 96 tooth 0.6mod wheels and actually a 4th 96 tooth wheel with slightly smaller OD. I`m not clear on how the smaller OD works, I see why it is done but module is related to OD so I don`t understand how you can just go and change it because you need to! Anyway, that is what the plans call for and plenty of people have built this clock so it must work OK.

Anyway, 6x 96tooth wheels:

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/parslow21.jpeg)

Praying that my dividing head was turning correctly and they would meet OK!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/parslow22.jpeg)

A little polishing to do but here they are straight off the arbour.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/parslow23.jpeg)

Then after a light polish. No point fully polishing until they have been crossed out
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/parslow24.jpeg)
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: dsquire on February 15, 2013, 04:03:53 AM: Chris

Those gears look a treat. Nice that you could cut them all at once rather than individually.

Cheers :beer:

Don
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: NickG on February 15, 2013, 06:57:28 AM: Look spot on those Chris
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: Meldonmech on February 15, 2013, 07:20:49 AM: Hi Chris,
When cutting brass wheels, if you make a hardwood support slightly larger than in dia than the wheel dia and 10 mm thick, it will prevent burrs forming on the back of the last wheel, and also improve the surface finish of the tooth form. You actually make a wooden wheel, which can be kept in stock and turned down for smaller wheels.
Cheers David
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: Rob.Wilson on February 16, 2013, 03:32:39 AM: Nice going Chris :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

You doing the crossing out by hand ?

Rob
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: raynerd on February 16, 2013, 06:25:25 PM: David, as always, your advice noted and will certainly try that for the next batch!

Rob, when you posted your message, I'd not considered an alternative to hand crossing out. However, your message sparked my memory in that I'd just ordered a beefy 42A 12v supply for my CNC spindle that I hadn't yet tested. In fact, it has been sat on my work bench for over two weeks. It only took me 10 minutes to wire it up and my spindle was working again. Anyway, another 20minutes on v-carve drawing my crossing outs and generating some tool paths and a test piece was cut with the spindle not struggling one bit on the brass!! I then made a little jig to allow me to centre the wheel with the CNC spindle and home it all in and after 10 minutes I had cut a wheel..including tabs...all, in my opinion, looking very professional indeed....far too neat for my workshop!

So there it is...I've cheated and used CNC but hey ho...I built the CNC machine itself so that surely that scores me some points back!?!? :dremel:

I'll clean up the tabs tomorrow and post some more pics.

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/image1.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/image2.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/image3.jpg)

Edit. Hope the img size is ok. Posted off my ipad but have tried to adjust them. If not, will edit images on the pc tomorrow.
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: dsquire on February 17, 2013, 12:49:42 AM: Chris

Those are looking good and should clean up real good. Photo size is great as well.

Cheers :beer:

Don
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: Rob.Wilson on February 17, 2013, 03:41:06 AM: Quote
So there it is...I've cheated and used CNC but hey ho...I built the CNC machine itself so that surely that scores me some points back!?!?

:scratch: I see no cheating Chris , you used the tools available to you ,a tool you built :thumbup: , Those that think CNC is cheating don't understand CNC , they just think its just a case of press the button marked "cross out clock wheels " and out the part pops :lol: , they be the same folk that think nothing of buying a set of castings .

Rob
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: sbwhart on February 17, 2013, 04:15:53 AM: Very Impressive bit of work Chris :thumbup: :thumbup:

Stew
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: NickG on February 17, 2013, 04:59:05 AM: That was awesome, well done, must be even more satisfying using a Cnc machine you built yourself and getting results like that!
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: Stilldrillin on February 17, 2013, 06:11:59 AM: Superb work Chris! :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: vtsteam on February 17, 2013, 10:37:20 AM: Great job with the motorized spindle.

I have the makings for one (brushless motor ESC, collet spindle holder, and collets,) but have yet to start to put it together. Yours is very inspiring. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: Alan Haisley on February 17, 2013, 12:17:21 PM: Love it, Chris.
Of course, with that CNC spindle you may want to consider S-curve spokes :proj:
Alan
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: micktoon on February 17, 2013, 03:47:02 PM: Looking good Chris ................ :clap: :clap: , although I have no CNC stuff , I am with Rob, use what you have to do the job , especially when you have built the CNC yourself :thumbup: ................ its legal :lol:
Cheers Mick.
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: doubleboost on February 17, 2013, 03:58:43 PM: Very nice tidy work
I bet Joseph Whitworth would have used a CNC if he had one :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: millwright on February 17, 2013, 05:01:02 PM: Nicely done Chris, Nothing wrong with using CNC especially when you have built that yourself. You have it you use it.
John
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: raynerd on February 18, 2013, 07:25:12 PM: Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply and great to see so much support for using the CNC. I must admit, it did get me thinking...if the gaps between teeth are 0.92mm, without checking im pretty sure it is, and you can get end mills right down to stupidly small sizes, in theory, could the entire wheel be cut via CNC!! Anyway, thoughts for another day...

John, John, mick and Rob, thanks for the message and support in using the CNC. Funnily enough I'm always shocked with the amount of CNC work in these so called hand build watches. I was watching a YouTube video of the apprentice of the late George Daniels, and even his expensive "hand built" watches used many CNC cut parts and pieces!

Alan,I did think of s spokes but in my opinion, was worried that would look a little OTT. Although I've used modern CNC, I like the traditional straight cross outs.

VTsteam... Well worth cobbling one together. I've not tested my runout lately but it was pretty damn good last time I put it together and it is bloody hurtling around a some speed, 14,000rpm according to mach3 and home brew tachometer. All that on some standard skate board bearings. To be honest, with the new power supply showing that this is clearly a useful and functional spindle, I'd be tempted to now upgrade the bearings. The only warning people keep telling me about with these outrunner motors. Is them running too hot but I've to experienced this at all. Certainly no where I can feel anyway.

NickG - yes very satisfying, I was pleased that my CNC could accurately cut wood and drag engrave metAl. However, with the new power supply on the spindle, I can actually cut brass which has just pushed the mAchine into a whole new level of usefulness for me!! I mad the machine using 1/2 ally plate and steel supports, with the x axis running on 2 steel bar support slides AND a more expensive steel brace and linear bearing. The entire machine is mounted on be large .5" ally plate bed, so for such a small machine the thing is pretty rigid. I've always been confident it could do useful work if I found a small enough but rigid enough spindle to match,

Stew - thanks for replying. You were a real inspiration a few years back now when you took the time and effort in trying to make a clock wheel with me. I've never really stopped trying since then!

And finally one of the wheels cleaned up a bit...

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/image4.jpg)
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: Alan Haisley on February 18, 2013, 10:03:46 PM: Quote from: raynerd on February 18, 2013, 07:25:12 PM
Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply and great to see so much support for using the CNC. I must admit, it did get me thinking...if the gaps between teeth are 0.92mm, without checking im pretty sure it is, and you can get end mills right down to stupidly small sizes, in theory, could the entire wheel be cut via CNC!! Anyway, thoughts for another day...

Or at least you could gash the teeth and really reduce what the gear cutter needs to do. :smart:
Alan
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: Brass_Machine on February 18, 2013, 11:25:39 PM: Quote from: raynerd on February 16, 2013, 06:25:25 PM

So there it is...I've cheated and used CNC but hey ho...I built the CNC machine itself so that surely that scores me some points back!?!? :dremel:

The use of CNC on this board should never be considered "cheating".

Eric
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: raynerd on May 29, 2013, 07:04:09 PM: :wave: still here!

Did a bit more tonight. I wanted to make the mainspring barrel but after my disaster last time I was worried about making such a thick wheel again. I have been lucky to borrow a Thornton cutter, not because the home made one was dud, just because I spoilt it when I slipped on the last cut.

I was also struggling for suitable thick brass tube until my pal suggested an old barrel and cut the wheel off! I dug out an old mainspring barrel with snapped teeth:

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/image6.jpg)

Cut off the wheel and cleaned it up:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/image7.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/image8.jpg)

I then cut the groove in my wheel to match the barrel:

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/image9.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/image12.jpg)

The plans say to silver solder the two together or soft solder. I would prefer to silver solder but I'll need to get it really hot and will the brass discolour and need a lot of working in polishing it back up....especially in areas I can't even get to??? Any thoughts?

Chris
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: andyf on May 29, 2013, 11:03:47 PM: Quote from: raynerd on May 29, 2013, 07:04:09 PM
The plans say to silver solder the two together or soft solder. I would prefer to silver solder but I'll need to get it really hot and will the brass discolour and need a lot of working in polishing it back up....especially in areas I can't even get to??? Any thoughts?

Having regard to the quote below, which appeared on another forum yesterday, it looks like you need the lowest melting point you can get if using silver solder, and aim the flame down into the barrel. Those teeth might heat up a bit quickly if the flame gets on them.

Andy

Quote:
".....turns out that you can heat Brass parts too much... found a nice spring clamp to hold the parts I was soldering next, got everything clean and fluxed up, poured the heat on and soldered nicely - when everything was cool I pulled the spring clamp off to find that it had sunk into the brass by about 2mm!"
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: Meldonmech on May 30, 2013, 01:12:17 AM: Hi Chris,
It is looking good, clock makers of the past did not use tube for drive barrels. They used 1/8 inch strip, annealed and formed into a barrel, silver soldered at the joint. The barrel end was then sweated on using soft solder. I have used this method on all my clocks, and have have not encountered a single problem. This method has been used for hundreds of years.
On one of your pictures I noted a small chamfer on the wheel crossings, the normal convention in clock making is to leave the crossings with sharp edges.

Well Done Cheers David
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: ddkhalaji on May 30, 2013, 01:29:12 AM: Quote from: raynerd on May 29, 2013, 07:04:09 PM

The plans say to silver solder the two together or soft solder. I would prefer to silver solder but I'll need to get it really hot and will the brass discolour and need a lot of working in polishing it back up....especially in areas I can't even get to??? Any thoughts?

Chris

If you are worried about the temperature, have you tried using "easy" silver solder, which has the lowest melting temperature of around 650 C, "hard" silver solder usually melts around 750 C. Is the brass actually discoloured? I know a lot of the hard black scale is usually flux, and it will blunt a file in a short amount of time. Therefore the part is placed in a 'pickle' (diluted sulphuric acid) afterwards for several seconds, and then washed to remove all traces of the acid. Once dry, the part should be reasonable in appearance, and shouldn't need a lot of polishing.

I'm unsure how familiar you are with silver soldering brass, sorry if these are the steps you have already taken. Then I assume it would be practice getting the balance right between your flux, solder and temperature.

Dean
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: NickG on May 30, 2013, 01:15:12 PM: Looks v professional that Chris. If you pickle the parts after in sulphuric acid you can usually clean them up pretty well.
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: S. Heslop on May 30, 2013, 05:30:00 PM: Quote from: RobWilson on February 17, 2013, 03:41:06 AM
:scratch: I see no cheating Chris , you used the tools available to you ,a tool you built :thumbup: , Those that think CNC is cheating don't understand CNC , they just think its just a case of press the button marked "cross out clock wheels " and out the part pops :lol: , they be the same folk that think nothing of buying a set of castings .

I remember a few years ago CNC machines were all the rage with a certain type of person. I think they all fully expected them to be just like that, and were disappointed when they realised how much work they really were.

Now they've all moved onto 3d printers expecting the same.

Those gears are looking real swish though. Can't wait to see the clock start to take shape.
Title: Re: Parslow's Skeleton Clock by Raynerd
Post by: vtsteam on May 31, 2013, 09:19:58 AM: Looks really nice!

Tools are tools. CNC is like a hammer. A lot of potential, but just a hammer on its own. not a birdhouse.

I have a couple of CNC machines, but I find it more fun and easier to act than think these days. Unfortunately. :lol: